V8's vs. 4 bangers with a turbo

[semperfi]

You don't need to support your argument. Put the two cars side-by-side and watch the crowds. Enjoy your electron blue vette and let your sister in law run her mazda into the ground trying to keep up with the prestige of a VETTE. So what if her brakes last longer. My bet is your engine, and resale value will outlast her MAZDA!!!

 

[MaineShark]

Okay, boost basically increases your displacement, without making a mechanical change. You cram more air into the same space.

If you run 15 pounds of boost, you've basically doubled your displacement.

Sounds great!

But do the math...

2L x 2 = 4L

350ci = 5.7L

Vette still wins.

You'd need to run more than 40psi of boost to make that 2L engine equivalent to the 5.7L 'Vette engine.

Maybe a few run that kind of boost, but not on the street. You need race gas to stave off detonation, running boost levels like that, so it makes no sense to talk about that.

How many of those imports that run fast track numbers can actually produce anything close to the same amount of power, in the real world where 93 is all the octane you have available?

Yeah, there are other considerations, but the difference in displacement is so great with many of these cars that it is nearly impossible for them to even come close to the real-world performance of the Corvette.

Joe

 

[Tom73]

Tom73: but here's the catch, I could go out buy a STI add a larger turbo with a turbo timer, a larger intercooler, and an EMS (engine management system) and probably wipe the smiles off most vette owners. in the end the STI is still cheaper and out performs the vette.

But that is just the issue. The "tuners" took these 4 bangers and did their magic on them, blower, intercooler, ems, suspension, brakes, etc, etc. They still fell short of the stock Z06 and their cost was more after all the mods. So you spend more money and get less performance.

Now these cars had to be street legal. But if you created a single purpose car, say a drag car, and only focused on that then you may be able to keep the cost down (no improved brakes, limited or no suspension mods, etc).

tom...

 

[corvettecrazy]

although not all tuners are bad the ones who entered in that article must have been. with 50g I could definately create a car that would be faster than a Z06...i just dont have 50g sitting in my pocket, let alone 50 cents.

 

[Gorgon]

corvettecrazy, you're fine with your information. I realize that imports can be modded to the hilt and that there are a few of them out there that can eat my lunch on the street or track. I just haven't seen any yet.

The original arguments by Vette Virgin's sis-in-law was that American cars are big and heave. These were the items I was addressing mainly. The Corvette is a few inches longer and wider than the STi but the STi weighs almost 20 pounds more than the C5.

Modding always comes into play with this type of comparison, but I believe the original discussion that Vette Virgin had was with regard to stock cars.

Leon

 

[SurfnSun]

I think the STi and Evo are great cars. They both run 13.0s in the mags which is awesome for a 4banger. Thats LT4 speed in the quater :eek Don't shoot me.

Natually I diagree with the statement that Vettes don't need turbos. Until youve been in one you'll never understand.

With that said, I love Vettes. But the REAL import race cars are pretty cool....not the ricey ones. I'll never own one but Im a car guy...I like em all.

 

[warren s]

The import car philosophy is just like the U.S. Governments when dealing with a problem.

If you apply enough money to any issue you can overcome it, even if there is a way more efficient way to solve it.

Like I said before, even if you add thousands of dollars to a $25,000 import, when your all done its still a just a $10,000 used Jap car in a few years. All that money and effort spent to build a car that can challenge what you could have bought in the first place.

 

[warren s]

Natually I diagree with the statement that Vettes don't need turbos. Until youve been in one you'll never understand.

Never meaning to disrespect the Callaway crowd-

Vettes dont "need" turbos to provide stunning performance.
A Turbo(s) on a Vette is just icing on the cake.

 

[fhturner]

Modding always comes into play with this type of comparison, but I believe the original discussion that Vette Virgin had was with regard to stock cars.

Gotta agree with you here, Leon. When I read this statement by corvettecrazy:

BUT those 4 banging engines can still be modified to produce more hp than the vette. so then they gain 2 advantages, more horsepower AND lower weight.

...my first thought was, "Yeah, but you can still still modify the Vette, too, to once again produce more power than the import. This type of argument seems to imply that the Vette's power output is frozen in time and can never be improved, and yet it is assumed that you'll be doing everything known to man to these import motors to try to equal or surpass the Vette. In any case, these solutions are usually for straight-line performance only. How well do these revved-up imports stack up when going around corners? Not that great, I would imagine...

While it is fascinating to me all of the "stuff" that people do to these tuner cars, I still prefer the raw power of the Corvette. Not to mention it looks better, is probably better-appointed inside (and cozy!), and all-around handles better, to say nothing of the fact that it just plain kicks ass!

L8r,
Fred

 

[Vette Virgin]

Turbo or Supercharger

Just for kicks 'n giggles, how much would a turbocharger cost to install on my LS1? Supercharger maybe?

What would they do for me in the performance market? I gotz ta know!

 

[vettepilot]

It all comes down to personnal likes and dislikes. We like our Vettes, your sister-in-law evidently doesn't.
I would like to ask.... When was the last time somebody won a Top Flight or Survivor Award with a 30 year old import anything?
Next, yes one can mod those little cars to the hilt, and they will out handle or accel any Corvette. But it won't come off the showroom with a 3 year warranty like that.
While we are on the modding question, did it ever occur to those modded ricer guys that there are modded Corvettes and other American made icons out there. Meet up with the wrong one of those and it will suck the paint right off a little Civic, Subaru or Mitsubishi. That includes those Supras too, they are fast, but there is always somebody faster or quicker.
Well I said it, and it probably won't matter. But maybe there is enough material within this thread to fend off your sister-in-law.
Maybe the best way to convince her is to get her out in a 2002 or later Z06, and set her hair on fire. Then haul it down with those great brakes. After she resets her eyeballs, ask her if she would like to re-state her position on American cars.

vettepilot

 

[atmmac]

all i know is that i eat imports for breakfast lunch and dinner.

Also want to add I WILL NEVER BUY A FOREIGN CAR EVER! Right now i own 3 chevys a 94 camaro (winter car) my 97 vette my best car and my 66 chevy impala ragtop (my project car being painted right now and going up for sale next spring.) I dont buy imports hell i dont even recognize imports they all just suck.

 

[Chas]

She should have had a V-8!

give me 8, throbbing ,snarling, smokin cylinders of American muscle anyday!

 

[Mart]

As long as everybody keeps wanting to MOD thier tuners, STi whatever car they choose.

Money aside.

I'll put a Lingenfelter TT Vette against any Modded WRX with NOS any day.

Or even a SNAT.

Hmmm did'nt anyone mention these cars especially the SNAT, these were factory options, right.

BYE BYE WRX, EVO.

 

[SurfnSun]

:eyerole: An LPE TT is hardly a 30k factory car, both of which the EVO and STi are.

I never said they were the end all cars, but for a 4 door, 4banger to run low 13s thats pretty impressive. More than 1/2 the Vettes on this board probably don't run that fast. Again, that doesn't mean I want one.

Remember 13.0 is BMW M5 speed, granted on the highway these cars will get raped b/c of lower power and poor aero. But still they are quick.

 

[Mart]

Hey, everybody was talking about modded cars against stock vettes, so $$$ aside I'll take the LPE and say Adios.


BTW Where you gettin 13 from.....

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/100430/page004.html

 

[SurfnSun]

I saw the 13 in a mag this month. It was one of the major ones, C&D, MT, or R&T. can't remember which one exactly.

 

[Mart]

Yeah, I have seen those articles too, takin with a grain of salt.

I have yet to actually see one at the track do a 13 Quarter, actually I have not seen one break 14, maybe it was the drivers.

Hmmm now that I think about it I have blown 2 of them out of the hole in my stock 86, we kind of ran out of room to prove any further.

86's are not known for thier HP just Torque.

And yes they were STi's

I have also killed I repeat, killed a Boxter S.

It's the Torque, it rules, no waitin for turbo rpm's

 

[Gorgon]

I have also killed I repeat, killed a Boxter S.

Of course you have. No need to repeat anything about the Boxster. It's fairly slow.

Leon

 

[Wamp]

cheap car

In respect to the 4 cyl. ricers. One has to admit that they are quick and real quick with NOS or turbos. But (and thats a BIG BUT) what do they have when it's all said and done? You have a cheap car that has no resell and after the mods you have one that will not stand up to the test of time. throw away cars will always be throw away cars. If I mod my vette, I have C O R V E T T E!