Help! Swapping relay messed up LCD display

[rmagee7]

well you got the later year havent been able to figure that one out yet,what was it montgomery scott said the more they overtech it the easer it is muck it up

 

[gmjunkie]

junkie man i'm gonna get naild for this cause i've only done it once buut.....how in the world do you start a new thread ???????.......

Go to what ever section you want to post the thread in and hit New Thread at the near top left hand side!!

Look for this!!

Here!! C4 General Discussion - Corvette Action Center
or Here!! C4 Technical and Performance - Corvette Action Center
or Here!! C5 General Discussion - Corvette Action Center

 

[vdogamr]

Why always the small things?

So I found time to try to get the cluster out. I can't disconnect the wires. Why is it always the easy part that gives me troubles?

The instructions I have say there is a clip holding the connectors in place. The only thing I see that may be a clip is in the back where I can't reach it (or even see if it is infact a clip). I removed what I thought was a clip, but I think it was just an extra piece of plastic to make pulling the connector easier.

Well, I will try again tonight. If I can't get it, I am just going to put the whole thing back together and see if it is drivable to a professional.

 

[roger longman]

You just pull out the connectors,they only go on one way so you can't mess it up. Roger.

 

[vetteoz]

first off do you have a single fan or a dual fan .... they changed so much .... it's kinda hard to keep up ......the ecm has control over the fan the only time it dosent is when it fails ... when it does the fan wont go into bypass until the temp gets to 240-250 then it kicks in.

:crazy
The 2nd fan was a option (BP4 ) '86 - '89 so you could have 1 or 2 fans.
The ECM controls the main fan; there is no "backup" ; it works or it doesn't.
The 2nd fan if fitted is turned on by a temp switch in the drv side head at the temp it is set at. Runs independent of ECM.

'90 + have 2 fans controlled by the ECM
'85 only has ECM control with temp switch backup
And just to be different the '84 has no ECM fan control; switch only.

 

[vdogamr]

NEWS!

So I finally got a little time and my FSMs.

Here is an update: (Bolded for easy skimming)

So I found the ground (117) most likely used for the relay that shouldn't exist (it was not in the FSM), and made sure it was clean and working. I found the main ground right off the negative battery cable, and made sure it was clean and working (it was very rusty).

I never could find ground 201, but it seems that if that ground was the problem, then almost nothing would work. The description said "Behind the IP near the LH side of the steering column", and was one of the few grounds without a picture.

I found what I think to be ground 104 by jacking the car up and sliding under. It wasn't where the book said it would be, it was attached to the transmission housing. It, and everything around it, was very messy. (I may have an oil leak somewhere) I could not budge the nut holding the wires in place, so I could not give it a through cleaning. But I did use a voltmeter to test that there is a connection between as many wires as I could touch and the alternator housing, so I think that ground is good.

So then I moved on to testing the cluster's connecting wires. All of the pins I was told to test of the 32 pin connector and its 2 grounds seemed good. However, I could never get any reading off the 24 pin connector. I found a grounded piece of frame close enough that I could test for a connection between the 24pin connector's ground and the frame. I got no reading. I think this may be my problem. I have not tested this connector with the car actually running, just key in the on position. But I would think I would have gotten a connection from ground to ground.

I don't know why I am happy that I think I found a problem (especially when I have no idea how to fix it), but I think just knowing what the problem is helps.

I have not yet resoldered any connections in my cluster (I had some bars out so I still intend to). But, I did take a recommendation from this forum and go buy so 168 bulbs. My problem is the store had two 1/2in sockets and two ?5/8in? sockets (maybe 3/8). I bought all 4 because I have 4 bulbs, and I can return the ones that aren't right. Anyone know what size socket to use? (Answering my own question: 1/2in)

Thanks to anyone and everyone that has helped me with this, I feel my car may make it out of the garage this week!

 

[vdogamr]

You just pull out the connectors,they only go on one way so you can't mess it up. Roger.

Oh, by the way. I bought a tiny telescoping mirror to see behind the connectors. Yep, they each had a clip on them. The top one was easy to un-clip, but the bottom one was a real pain. I wished I had a hand for the flashlight, the mirror, the bent piece of wire for un-clipping, and the screwdriver for prying. I am thinking about modifing the clip to make it easier in the future.

 

[Paul Higg]

Great job on those grounds! And thanks for keeping us posted. Personally, I love when people post troubleshooting write-ups like yours!

Good luck and hope you have it running very soon.

Paul

 

[vdogamr]

End of the story?

So I hope this is the end of the story.

I took my car to a mechanic because the Service engine light was on. At this point the dash was sitting in the passenger seat. On the way to the mechanic the car started acting really bad. Once I got there, they were closing. So I decided to use their parking lot to reinstall my dash. Upon doing so, turning the key had no effect at all. So I worte the mechanic a long note about the car and left it for them.

Apparently (according to them) my cooling fan, and dash problems all stemmed from the fuse panel being so corroded that connections were failing. The car acting funny was the failed o2 sensor, and somthing about the throttle position being adjusted by the previous owner. (But that's a different thread)

So all of you that ever told me to just check my fuses... Well, I guess I should have checked harder.

Boy! did I buy a great car or what? Still keeping my spirits up though.

 

[Paul Higg]

I hope this car wasn't underwater. If there was that much corrosion it may have been. Keep looking for other signs that it was underwater. Did it spend its life near the water?

 

[vdogamr]

Do water falls count?

Well it spent that last 2 years of its live in a place called Granite Falls. Which, as it sounds, has mountain waterfalls. This is a place where the major draw is camping and hiking. It is my guess that this car was not garaged, and so being in a very moist area could have done this. All the rubber window seals are dried out, crumbling, or missing. I think, judging by the interior plastic, at least one previous owner did not not take good care of this car. The carfax report does not mention anything useful other than where the car spent its life. It also appears that the car was not sold for the first time until 1992. Which means 4 years of just sitting around?

What are the major signs that this car could have even more unseen water damage? When I removed the battery, there was a lot of rust flakes under the battery holder. The easily visible parts under the hood all look good though.

I should get the car back today, or tomorrow. But wouldn't you know it, rain today and snow in the forcast for tomorrow. Why is it only good weather when the Vette is broken. :L

 

[Paul Higg]

I would look at any metal and look for aluminum corrosion or rust as you saw from under the battery tray, however, the rust may have been from periodic battery leakage. Look at ALL electrical connections and look for and green around soldered joints as solder corrodes green. Aluminum white, and steel, well rust of course. My main concern would be to look for any green on the solder. That doesn't necessarily mean it was submerged. Does the car have a submerged smell? It would have a distinct rotting odor. Does it smell badly when you turn on the A/C or heater? See if there is a lot of rust on the seat rails.

Let us know.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[vdogamr]

It doesn't really have a rotting smell. The smell of the car I would describe as "old crossed with new-car scent". It was detailed at the dealer before I bought it, so it kind of has that cleaner smell, but it also has the same 20yr old car smell I have smelled many times before. Also I have not used the AC. (bought it in December) I did replace the blower motor and used the heater. No smell there. When I removed the dash, I found that the foam that seals the air vents was dried and crumbling.

As for rust, here is what I have seen: (Remembering since it is still in the shop ad)
Behind the rear license plate is like sandpaper.
The rails of the seats are red and like really fine sandpaper
The big bolts that hold the top on are rusty as are the holes they thread into.
Removing the top there was a lot of yellowish white sand that seemed to come from around the glass.

But here are some good parts:
The fabric does not seem to be molded or discolored (minus possible sunfade)
The only rusty electrical ground I found so far was under the battery.
Engine componets show no signs of rust.

But a friend of mine, who knows the area it lived in better, reminded me that if it was kept outside it was kept outside in Seattle weather. We get 250+ days of wet weather a year, so yes it has been around water.

 

[Paul Higg]

Good, it looks like it was not underwater. But if it was in Seattle with all that salt water vapor it will cause that corrosion you mentioned. When you get a chance have a look at all the solder and copper traces and see if they're green.

Keep at it. You're doing fine. Best of luck.

Paul

 

[vdogamr]

The End

So I Monday, I got back my car. With the new O2 sensor it runs much better :L. The electrical system seems good. And the dash board is almost exactly the same as before this all started. The cooling fan issue was also apparently corrosion related (they made it sound as if not the fusebox).

The dash has a new problem, I guess, but I like it. I think I said I replaced the 882 bulbs with the 168s. BTW, amazingly all the 882s blew at the same time, probably poor circut related. Now the dash does not dim. I think I will leave it that way. I always thought it was too dark at night anyway.

In the end, I don't know if taking apart the dash helped at all. It still has exactly the same LCD bars out. But it works, the connections are cleaner, the car runs, and I am getting my driving time to catch up to my shop time .

Thanks

 

[Toms007]

So I Monday, I got back my car. With the new O2 sensor it runs much better :L. The electrical system seems good. And the dash board is almost exactly the same as before this all started. The cooling fan issue was also apparently corrosion related (they made it sound as if not the fusebox).

The dash has a new problem, I guess, but I like it. I think I said I replaced the 882 bulbs with the 168s. BTW, amazingly all the 882s blew at the same time, probably poor circut related. Now the dash does not dim. I think I will leave it that way. I always thought it was too dark at night anyway.

In the end, I don't know if taking apart the dash helped at all. It still has exactly the same LCD bars out. But it works, the connections are cleaner, the car runs, and I am getting my driving time to catch up to my shop time .

Thanks

Well, I am certainly glad that you have those issues squared away......but I hope you didn't jinx yourself by saying "The End". In reality this is probably just the beginning, but drive it while you can, it is definitely more fun than working on them.