'89 Warm start problem. Forum members BEWARE!

[DallasK]

My car would not start when warm. It would turn over but would not start. Once it was cold again it would start and run fine. When I explained that here people started sending me messages as though they were helping but insisting I should buy injectors from a place called "FIC". There was one other place that was suggested too but those guys never responded to my e-mails. So I bought a fuel tester gauge to check for injector leakage as advised here. I bought an OHM meter to check voltage as advised here. And on and on and on. Most notable of this marginal advice was from a guy named Frank telling me about a "Special" discount from FIC. And when I mentioned Frank to them it was obvious they knew exactly who he was and what he was doing! They sure as heck did not advise me to have a true expert check it out before buying injectors. In fact they pressured me into buying a gasket kit as well. Well after getting "Expert Advice" here and buying injectors, a gasket set ($30), fuel filter and fuel regulator the car was still doing the same thing. So I took it to an authorized chevy dealer with Corvette mechanics on duty. Duh! I plunked down my $80 for an analysis of my problem. They told me in about 15 minutes what was wrong. As it turned out I put on a $16 part called a fuel relay switch. Problem solved. Had I done that to begin with I would have saved the purchase and installation of all of these other unnecessary items spending well over $600 before all was said and done. Not one of these online "Experts" even mentioned the fuel relay switch. So the moral of the story is: Get a real pro to check it out first. And then if you want to do it yourself you can. While I think there are some really nice and helpful people here, with good intentions; it is also obvious there are several companies using this site to "Feast" off of unsuspecting Vette owners with issues. It is kind of hard to imagine the site owners are not aware of this. Heck, maybe the site owners are one or more of these businesses... Who knows? Good luck and be careful please...

 

[jester]

The real lesson is that most failure modes have multiple things that can cause the failure. That's why you should diagnose the problem down to the failing component and not just throw parts at it.

 

[DallasK]

You seem to be making the same point I am. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. My point was that certain people here seem to insist on inappropriate solutions. For profit...

 

[XLR8]

DallasK,
We've got a great site here, with helpful members, supporting vendors, GM techs and a search engine for researching every post for all things Corvette. If you feel you were coerced into purchasing parts and making unnecessary repairs by unscrupulous members or vendors, please provide a link to the thread where these discussions took place.

I've never been aware of any of our vendors trying to trick members with issues and I feel confident my fellow staff can make the same statement. The reason for this is the staff would be made aware of the behavior and they would be permently banned from the site.

To imply that the site staff or site owner is guilty of allowing such tactics is irresponsible and reckless.

Jane Ann

 

[Rob]

You seem to be making the same point I am. Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. My point was that certain people here seem to insist on inappropriate solutions. For profit...

If that is the case, then the Administration needs to be notified of that ASAP via PM or Email.

IF we don't know anything about it, or we don't know who it is, there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[XLR8]

Dallas, I suggest going back and reading your first thread regarding this issue and in post#4, you'll see that a member suggested you start with the fuel pressure readings before going to the expense of replacing injectors. The member that suggested you replace injectors gave no troubleshooting advice and in fact the only response was links to another website - not the Corvette Action Center. It is on that site that FIC is a supporting vendor.

In another thread, a member clearly stated that your fuel pressure readings were too low.

In fact the only time I saw a member directly state it was your injectors was after you kept referring to them while disregarding all the troubleshooting advice offered by members, including a Staff member.

Our Supporting Vendor here, did not coerce you into buying injectors from him, but in fact offered a link for members after you stated you were ordering the injectors.

I've read nothing yet to indicate to me that any CAC member, Staff or Vendor tricked you into doing anything you didn't make up your own mind to do.

I can't speak for anything said on another site.

Jane Ann

 

[rlg]

DallasK, Did your injectors ohm out within the suggested range?

 

[KANE]

The real lesson is that most failure modes have multiple things that can cause the failure. That's why you should diagnose the problem down to the failing component and not just throw parts at it.

 

[TWISTERUP]

My car would not start when warm. It would turn over but would not start. Once it was cold again it would start and run fine. When I explained that here people started sending me messages as though they were helping but insisting I should buy injectors from a place called "FIC". There was one other place that was suggested too but those guys never responded to my e-mails. So I bought a fuel tester gauge to check for injector leakage as advised here. I bought an OHM meter to check voltage as advised here. And on and on and on. Most notable of this marginal advice was from a guy named Frank telling me about a "Special" discount from FIC. And when I mentioned Frank to them it was obvious they knew exactly who he was and what he was doing! They sure as heck did not advise me to have a true expert check it out before buying injectors. In fact they pressured me into buying a gasket kit as well. Well after getting "Expert Advice" here and buying injectors, a gasket set ($30), fuel filter and fuel regulator the car was still doing the same thing. So I took it to an authorized chevy dealer with Corvette mechanics on duty. Duh! I plunked down my $80 for an analysis of my problem. They told me in about 15 minutes what was wrong. As it turned out I put on a $16 part called a fuel relay switch. Problem solved. Had I done that to begin with I would have saved the purchase and installation of all of these other unnecessary items spending well over $600 before all was said and done. Not one of these online "Experts" even mentioned the fuel relay switch. So the moral of the story is: Get a real pro to check it out first. And then if you want to do it yourself you can. While I think there are some really nice and helpful people here, with good intentions; it is also obvious there are several companies using this site to "Feast" off of unsuspecting Vette owners with issues. It is kind of hard to imagine the site owners are not aware of this. Heck, maybe the site owners are one or more of these businesses... Who knows? Good luck and be careful please...

Sooo--- let me get this straight -you came to this forum--hat in hand--asking for advice because YOU COULDN'T FIX IT YOURSELF and some of the "Experts" here suggested or should I say twisted your arm into buying a fuel pressure gauge and a ohm meter which you in turn used to check the injectors and you found NO PROBLEM with them (they must have been OK because replacing them didn't fix your problem-right???) but you went ahead anyway-- contacted a vendor and purchased replacement injectors. Now somehow in that FOG you must live in--it's the forum members (Experts) fault that you removed perfectly good injectors and bought more to replace them with--oh by the way lest I forget--YOU contacted FIC and they did exactly what they're in business for SELLING INJECTORS--I really can't understand why they would do something like that It's a shame you didn't go to your dealer first instead of posting here and wasting some of the members(Experts) time. I SURE HOPE THAT"S WHAT YOU DO NEXT TIME!!

There really are some Experts on this forum ( I've always said it takes talent to know talent) but I wouldn't expect someone like you to know that. As far as FIC goes they have a super online reputation kudos to FIC Remember always go to your dealer first !

 

[vetteoz]

As it turned out I put on a $16 part called a fuel relay switch.... Problem solved. Not one of these online "Experts" even mentioned the fuel relay switch..

Because the hot start problems you had are typical of pressure / injector problems and the fact that it ran cold would indicate the fuel relay pressure switch was working.If you had reported a start but not continue running problem that could have indicated pressure switch problem
Nobody has ever reported a pressure switch that worked cold but not hot;They either work or don't.

 

[toptechx6]

As others have pointed out there is only one person to blame here, you came to an open internet forum for free advice then imagine some worldwide conspiracy to take your money. Right or wrong I'm sure any advice offered here was in good faith trying to help you.
Not really any surprise a local dealer who could actually test the vehicle had better results diagnosing the car than forum members relying on your description of the problem.
The only pressure to buy anything came from your own mind, Jon at FIC is known in the Vette community for honest business practices and service above and beyond the highest customer expectations. No I am not affiliated with him in any way.
I did contact him for his side of the story and he expressed regret at your experience and will be happy to refund your money, simply return the injectors.

 

[muddywaters]

Wow, How some people hate to spend money. They should stick to the econo boxes. In reality, all those parts replaced by DallasK were way past due, I'm sure his injectors were leaking down and he would have paid much more at the dealer to replace them.Like vetteoz said DallasK reported a hard start not a no start. The car is over 20 years old and some still don't get it that you have to put some money in them to keep them going. My advice to DallasK is from now on please go to the dealer, that $600 bucks you spent will be a drop in the bucket someday, after all DallasK corrected some of his problems making the dealers job much easier.....

 

[chuck121566]

Bummer. Should I cease sharing my personal experiences as a result of this? Never did I claim to be an "expert". I'll re-think offering any advice from here on.

 

[roger longman]

Hi Chuck, No, I for one welcome any honest report and I hope the majority of members feel the same way. If they don't I wouldn't want to be a part of it. I don't see your post on this subject, enlighten me. Seems there are some people that think you have money to spare because you have a vette. They have the arrogance of the ignorant. Roger.

 

[muddywaters]

Hi Chuck, No, I for one welcome any honest report and I hope the majority of members feel the same way. If they don't I wouldn't want to be a part of it. I don't see your post on this subject, enlighten me. Seems there are some people that think you have money to spare because you have a vette. They have the arrogance of the ignorant. Roger.

Well Roger, Since you have painted ME into a corner, I must respond. I know it's easy for someone to sit at a keyboard and pass judgment on the rest of us, I'm sure Geography has something to do with your response. My point was, after owning Vette's for almost 40 years is that they are not inexpensive. I do all my own work and only rarely look for help and appreciate it when I get it. Have I spent money on parts that were not the problem??? Sure I have, along with many others. Do I attack people because I do not have experience in auto repair???Noooo. Maybe CAC should add a new forum, "Vette repair for misers/tightwads and cheapskates." Like I said, some people don't like to spend money and if your that type, you have the wrong automobile. Thanks Roger, I await more insults.

 

[XLR8]

Perhaps this is a perfect time to remind everyone of our Terms of Service HERE and our Rules of Conduct HERE.

It should be noted that the thread originator has already moved on by requesting his CAC membership be terminated. Although we hate to see someone pull up roots and go, websites are like most everything else in life: one size does not fit all.

Whether he has found a website that better meets his needs or is still searching, we wish him well.

Jane Ann

 

[KANE]

Perhaps this is a perfect time to remind everyone of our Terms of Service HERE and our Rules of Conduct HERE. ...

 

[Hib Halverson]

Jane Ann-

As opposed to the thread on cat monitoring, elsewhere, where I think you over-reacted; This is thread you ought to close. Actually, you ought to delete it.

 

[roger longman]

Hi Muddy, I own 2 Vettes a '77 and an '88 and have spent a deal of money on both but I don't have a bottomless pocket. I made no insult but if the cap fits. Kindly explain what location has to do with this and why you are the arbitor of what automobile I should own. Roger.

 

[XLR8]

Jane Ann-

As opposed to the thread on cat monitoring, elsewhere, where I think you over-reacted; This is thread you ought to close. Actually, you ought to delete it.

The thread you mentioned had degenerated into mudslinging and name calling, taking the focus off the original poster's question entirely.

Was I incorrect in closing it? Maybe so, moderating isn't an exact science and I'm as likely to make a mistake as anyone. That's why I made the decision to close it for 24 hours, giving everyone involved a chance to take a breather and re-focus on the intended topic. I even PM'd the originator and explained my intentions to him.

I didn't see it necessary to inform you of my decision, Hib.

As for closing this one, unless Rob decides differently, we'll see.

It has remained open because a member made some serious accusations against the owner and Staff here. IMHO closing and deleting it would imply we had something to hide. Better to let it remain here for all to see that the accusations were unfounded.

Jane Ann