Dealer dropped my C5 off lift -- need advice

[TheBlueVette]

DISCLAIMER: This is not legal advice and should not be relied upon as a legal opinion. For entertainment purposes only. For legal advice, consult a competent attorney licensed to practice in your state.

mpolans -- really good comments! Even if they are for "entertainment" ...

Thanks!

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

You can build the value of the repairs up. For example, the repair costs are almost $11,000. Do they expect supplementals for undiscovered damage. Add this in. Do they owe you a rental car (no rental if the car is totaled)? If so, determine how long they anticipate to repair the car and multiply this by the daily cost of a rental. Example, $11,000 plus a $2,500 supplemental plus 15 days of rental at $35 per day and you have a cost on repair in the $14,000 range.

Now take the cost to total. Say the value of your car is $24,600. If they total it, they are going to sell it to a third party as salvage. Say $5,000. Say the diminished value of the car (assuming you are entitled to this in California) is $6,000. Their net out of pocket for totaling the car is now $13,600. Particularly if they expect supplementals they would be more inclined to total out the vehicle rather than face the uncertainty of repairs.

I think you're right, Bob. This is just a matter of economics to everyone but me and my wife. The manager at Stewart's said "a car is just a car" I think the insurance companies (both mine and theirs) have the same attitude. Okay, so I have a Work of Art, low-mileage first year C5 -- a collectible. To everybody else, it's just a car like any car. That's the part that makes me sad. They don't get it

Maybe what we need is a network of dealerships, body shops, insurance companies for people who love their cars. Every car I have ever had before this one, I wouldn't care about all this. This is my first Corvette, and it's special. I would want to take a special car to someone who actually cares about it, or least understands.

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

BV -
I don't know how you stay positive in your outlook with the dealer? Apparently, you, too, are a man of patience. As for me, well, I will refer to them as Screwart Cars now, as it appears they are going to do to barnetdh. If things work out for him as he wants, it won't change my opinion of them. Mistakes are made everyday. Good people step up and admit when they are responsible. Cowards hide behind their insurance companies. As of now, it is not hard to see where this dealership "hides".

Is "That's for the insurance company to decide" anything like "I'll have to check with my manager?"

- Dave

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Dave,

I manage an operation that handles claims for a large self insured entity. We get 50 - 60 new claims a month ranging from small auto accidents to burns, death and other catastrophes. I get far and away more calls on the auto property damages cases by probably a factor of 5 to 1 than I do over the injury cases.

Your situation is not unique. We get better. The car doesn't and people just love their cars. Of course with a Vette there is good reason.

This will resolve. Keep your eye on your goal and work toward it. You'll be surprised one day when all the BS drops off and the whole thing is behind you.

Stewart's insurance adjuster said $10,799. But same reasoning -- they have a vested interest in keeping it low.

What does your insurance company say? They should assign an appraiser as well. When I wrecked my daily driver recently, the body shop said $2000. When my company looked at the car they came up with $3,900. The body shop wants to get you in the door and will supplement you to death. Your insurance company wants to do it right the first time and not see you again.

Bob

 

[atlaccordguy]

This is really messed up. I hope the dealer works this out with you man.


By the way I saw that the Toyota owners were supporting you guys , so I wanted to let you know that you guys also have the support from Us Honda/Acura owners.


Saw this on Honda-Acura.net

 

[TooTall]

I realize that I am making some generalizations here but I think that this has to be said.

If General Motors responsibility ends with delivering their product to the independent dealer, maybe it’s time to stop supporting dealers in everything but sales. Why buy a car from a local dealer, why use their service or parts departments if not because they are backed by GM. There are many alternate sources for these services. If you can get better price and honest service elsewhere what’s the incentive to go to a GM authorized dealer.

In an ideal situation I would think that GM dealerships are not only trained but also guided in their business practices by GM. After all, the local dealerships are the public face of General Motors and for GM to say that we wash our hands of this because it’s an issue with the dealer and customer is very short sighted on General Motors part. I find it very difficult to believe that GM has no input over how a dealership is run.

This is so easy for the dealership to solve, it’s even easier for GM to step in and give some type of support and guidance or an outright solution.

What has happened to business ethics?

OK! That’s my rant for today.

 

[TheBlueVette]

I've been following up on the diminished value issue that has been raised a couple of times -- that turns out to be worthwhile. It seems that there are a lot of class action suits going on about it, since many insurance companies don't mention it unless you do. I found a consumer advocate group on this, and am having discussions.

I just spoke to the owner of Stewart's. He says they still can't find a replacement, but they are trying. He is confident that the repairs will be acceptable, and to back up that there will be no diminished value, he offered me $17,300 over the phone for my C5 after it's repaired.

- Dave

 

[JGRWilson]

barnetdh,

Here's my recommendation:
Go to Kelley Blue Book online (url: http://www.kbb.com/)
Figure out what your car was worth. Give these numbers to your dealer. Tell him to match it.
Or if you just bought the car, tell the dealer you'll take what you gave for it.
That's kind of fair, don't you think?
Best of luck!
Sincerely,
JGRW

 

[KOPBET]

He is confident that the repairs will be acceptable, and to back up that there will be no diminished value, he offered me $17,300 over the phone for my C5 after it's repaired.

- Dave

No diminished value = $17,300 ??? I'm :confused

 

[MM-C5]

I just pulled this off of Kelly Blue Book: http://www.kbb.com/

1997 Corvette
Engine: V8 5.7 Liter
Trans: Automatic
Drive: Rear Wheel Drive
Mileage: 40,000

Equipment

Air Conditioning Power Steering Power Windows Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel Cruise Control AM/FM Stereo Cassette Dual Front Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel) Leather Power Seat Alloy Wheels

Consumer Rated Condition: Excellent

"Excellent" condition means that the vehicle looks great, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. It should pass a smog inspection. The engine compartment should be clean, with no fluid leaks. The paint is glossy and the body and interior are free of any wear or visible defects. There is no rust. The tires are the proper size and match and are new or nearly new. A clean title history is assumed. This is an exceptional vehicle.

Private Party Value: $20,225
Private Party value represents what you might expect to pay for a used car when purchasing from a private party. It may also represent the value you might expect to receive when selling your own used car to another private party.

Trade-In Value: $17,625

Trade-in value represents what you might expect to receive from a dealer for this consumer owned vehicle. Keep in mind that the dealer must then absorb the cost of making the vehicle ready for sale, advertising, sales commissions, arranging financing and insurance and standing behind the vehicle for any mechanical or safety problems.

You are now in the negotiation phase. Remember the first rule of negotiating is that there are no rules. Good Luck!!

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Kelly Blue Book is just the first step in the process. See my prior post on how to determine the value of the car.

 

[TheBlueVette]

barnetdh,

Here's my recommendation:
Go to Kelley Blue Book online (url: http://www.kbb.com/)
Figure out what your car was worth. Give these numbers to your dealer. Tell him to match it.
Or if you just bought the car, tell the dealer you'll take what you gave for it.
That's kind of fair, don't you think?
Best of luck!
Sincerely,
JGRW

According to KBB, the trade-in is $18,835. Retail is $23,675. Private party sale would be $26,835. The dealer quoted me trade value of $16,800, based on comparibles, not KBB.

 

[R94 LT 1]

I finally got done reading through all this yesterday. Had to wait till today to get registered.

First, I feel for you and hope you get this all resolved to your satisfaction.
Second, unfortunately, this isn't the first time this has happened.

This first thread was one that was dropped and finally repaired. Only about $2000 in damage though.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=672102

This second one..............well lets just say yours turns out as well.

This is the beginning: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=629582

This is what happened: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=636006

This is the final thread: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=689211

I think at this point it would be best for the dealer to just save face and give you a new C5 (or C6 for that matter) of your choice and get it over with.

Good luck and keep everyone updated.

 

[TheBlueVette]

I just pulled this off of Kelly Blue Book: http://www.kbb.com/

1997 Corvette
Engine: V8 5.7 Liter
Trans: Automatic
Drive: Rear Wheel Drive
Mileage: 40,000

Good Luck!!

Thanks, MM-C5! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have the glass panel roof, premium sound, dual power seats, and single CD player, and that ups the $$ a little.

 

[bcwaller]

I think you're right, Bob. This is just a matter of economics to everyone but me and my wife. The manager at Stewart's said "a car is just a car" I think the insurance companies (both mine and theirs) have the same attitude. Okay, so I have a Work of Art, low-mileage first year C5 -- a collectible. To everybody else, it's just a car like any car. That's the part that makes me sad. They don't get it
- Dave

You might want to pass the manager's comments on to the owner. If people just bought cars without emotion, everyone would be driving base econoboxes or trucks with vinyl seats and rubber floormats. The only reason we are not all buying the cheapest car possible is that we get emotionally involved in the cars. This is not just limited to Corvettes.

Ask 100 people how they would feel if someone scratched their car. If it was "just a car", then nobody would really care much at all. But I would bet that more than 90% would be ****ed off and quite upset. I remember how upset I was when I thought my 1969 Dodge Dart was stolen back when I was in college. It was not desireable or collectible, but it was my car since high school and I was attached to it. Now, when my '73 Grand Torino Wagon was indeed stolen, I thought it was quite comical...

The dealership makes money because people get so excited about their cars and get emotional about them. If the staff does not realize this, then they are doomed to failure.

 

[Erik S. Klein]

I've been following up on the diminished value issue that has been raised a couple of times -- that turns out to be worthwhile. It seems that there are a lot of class action suits going on about it, since many insurance companies don't mention it unless you do. I found a consumer advocate group on this, and am having discussions.

That's good to know. . .

I just spoke to the owner of Stewart's. He says they still can't find a replacement, but they are trying. He is confident that the repairs will be acceptable, and to back up that there will be no diminished value, he offered me $17,300 over the phone for my C5 after it's repaired.

That's nice. He offers you low bluebook wholesale for the car because he thinks it's going to retain its original value. Nice guy.

I'd tell him to take the car and put it on his lot in exchange for high retail. Then report the car and damage to CarFax and make sure he'll never sell it for what he thinks. . .

What a crock.

 

[67HEAVEN]

You might want to pass the manager's comments on to the owner. If people just bought cars without emotion, everyone would be driving base econoboxes or trucks with vinyl seats and rubber floormats. The only reason we are not all buying the cheapest car possible is that we get emotionally involved in the cars. This is not just limited to Corvettes.

Ask 100 people how they would feel if someone scratched their car. If it was "just a car", then nobody would really care much at all. But I would bet that more than 90% would be ****ed off and quite upset. I remember how upset I was when I thought my 1969 Dodge Dart was stolen back when I was in college. It was not desireable or collectible, but it was my car since high school and I was attached to it. Now, when my '73 Grand Torino Wagon was indeed stolen, I thought it was quite comical...

The dealership makes money because people get so excited about their cars and get emotional about them. If the staff does not realize this, then they are doomed to failure.

Well said.

 

[John & Donna]

I've been following up on the diminished value issue that has been raised a couple of times -- that turns out to be worthwhile. It seems that there are a lot of class action suits going on about it, since many insurance companies don't mention it unless you do. I found a consumer advocate group on this, and am having discussions.

I just spoke to the owner of Stewart's. He says they still can't find a replacement, but they are trying. He is confident that the repairs will be acceptable, and to back up that there will be no diminished value, he offered me $17,300 over the phone for my C5 after it's repaired.

- Dave

I would not bet on this..... Allstate just won a huge court case concerning this issue. The court rulled that the insurance companies DO NOT have to pay for "diminished value" on a repaired car.

The dealer needs to make this right with you and at least compensate you Blue Book retail value for your car.

From looking at the pictures, I firmly believe the car is totaled. On the C5's the engine rides in the car in a slightly "nose down" attitude, rather than the conventional "nose up" attitude of nearly every other car on the road. The pictures indicate that the nose of your engine is now higher than the rear of the engine.... Therefore, major frame damage

 

[TheBlueVette]

I finally got done reading through all this yesterday. Had to wait till today to get registered.

First, I feel for you and hope you get this all resolved to your satisfaction.
Second, unfortunately, this isn't the first time this has happened.

This first thread was one that was dropped and finally repaired. Only about $2000 in damage though.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=672102

This second one..............well lets just say yours turns out as well.

This is the beginning: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=629582

This is what happened: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=636006

This is the final thread: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=689211

I think at this point it would be best for the dealer to just save face and give you a new C5 (or C6 for that matter) of your choice and get it over with.

Good luck and keep everyone updated.

I just read that second thread, R94 LT 1 -- wow. That's a dealer who knows how to win customer loyalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Dave

 

[TheBlueVette]

You might want to pass the manager's comments on to the owner. If people just bought cars without emotion, everyone would be driving base econoboxes or trucks with vinyl seats and rubber floormats. The only reason we are not all buying the cheapest car possible is that we get emotionally involved in the cars. This is not just limited to Corvettes.
....

The dealership makes money because people get so excited about their cars and get emotional about them. If the staff does not realize this, then they are doomed to failure.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time grasping the "car is just a car" attitude. I'd want to buy a car (or actually anything) from someone who really and truly believed in what they were selling. Someone who is passionate about their product would seem to be able to make a lot more money at it than someone for whom it's "just a job."

-Dave