Dodge already calling out GM for 2008

[Marim]

Hay Guys speaking of Dodge ( Viper) vs Chevy (ZO6) or DC vs GM. Here's something you may find interesting. I LOOK Over here from time to time just to see how the other half live. These guys have already been comparing things interesting thread here TAKE A LOOK.............http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-srt/50697-c6-z06-vs-2008-a.html

 

[trs]

To The Nordschleife, Batman!!!

Get these cars to the Nurburgring Nordschleife, run 5 laps each balls-out and get the average for each car. That should cut these threads down some - heh, heh.

( Would the ford gt even survive that day?)

 

[auto_x_al]

I love how the Dodge guys proclaim race proven platform. It's a good thing for them the to own a Cometition coupe it's not mandated that you actually have to be competitive!! Now with us it's just a given that we are going to win and dominate.

 

[Evolution1980]

I love how the Dodge guys proclaim race proven platform.

Do you mean to say that it's not?

 

[auto_x_al]

Do you mean to say that it's not?

The only thing that car has proven is that there are people out there willing to pay more for an inferior car. Other than that it's a big truck motor in an ugly car that cant put the power down to the ground. So in essence that's exactly what I am saying.

Al

 

[Evolution1980]

I love how the Dodge guys proclaim race proven platform.

Do you mean to say that it's not?

...in essence that's exactly what I am saying.

Ouch...I have to differ with you there, Al. Ya need to go back and freshen up on your racing history. Prior to Dodge's entrance into FIA and GT-class racing, the classes were dominated the various folks across the pond. When Dodge finally entered, the Viper cleaned house. Repeatedly. They did the same to even greater success in the ALMS racing league. Quite frankly, during Dodge's tenure in the ALMS, they dominated everyone for the years they were involved. Corvette Racing was stuck with settling for 2nd best American car and barely received any mention at that. Only after Dodge left ALMS did Corvette Racing start getting all their wins.
In my opinion, to say the Dodge Viper is not a race proven platform would be a slight misrepresentation of the facts. :eyerole

I'm all about Corvettes, but I'm also unbiased. The Viper is a damn fine racecar. And probably overall better than the vette on the track. It's just not a user friendly car like the vette.
People (or "we") can joust back and forth all day long. Only time will tell if the C6 will still be holding it's own in 2008-2009. Either way, there are no substantial losers.
The new viper will give run to the C6 Z06. Then the Corvette SS will come out. Then Dodge will likely release another beastly Viper ACR to compete with the SS. It's gonna be fun!!!

 

[kiwi vet]

Thank God that the Dodge boys keep improving the Viper. That keeps the GM boys on their game to stay ahead and we are the beneficiaries.

Tom

I think you've hit the nail on the head Tom!.

Real competition improves the breed/all breeds, and that can only be a good thing for the sports car enthusiast no matter what your brand preferance maybe.


Grant

 

[auto_x_al]

I guess recent history would be better. prior to the C5R I believe it was orica that was successful with the viper. I can see what you are saying and I must say you are correct. I get in that frame of mind and I see red. We all benefit when GM and DC fight for the power crown.

 

[Norseman]

Dodge

Have you ever noticed how guys who drive Vipers are usually, up in your face, mine is bigger than yours, kind or people;ad whereas Corvette guys are usually more like, "float like a butterfly sting like a bee", kind of guys.:cool

 

[auto_x_al]

Have you ever noticed how guys who drive Vipers are usually, up in your face, mine is bigger than yours, kind or people;ad whereas Corvette guys are usually more like, "float like a butterfly sting like a bee", kind of guys.:cool

They are very defensive. Then again I can be too. maybe it is the whole out numbered complex. Either way vette people are some of the coolest people I have met over the last few years.

 

[trs]

Greatness of Viper?

I think Oreca ran the Viper when the Vette team was getting started - '99, 2000. They left and then the Vette team started dominating.

I'm still wondering about the V-10 vs. V-8 thing. They have a V-10 putting out 500hp/500ft.lb. ( now ) and more soon. The Z-06 has a 500hp 427 SMALL BLOCK. So if Chevy does a big block or a V-10 ( theoretically ), we'd be crankin' out 700hp/650ft.lb? ( I know about the realistic blower plans, just sticking to the size thing right now ). The smaller, high power-density small block makes for a better handling car which make the Vette so capable, but the engine comparison is quite interesting. The LS7 wieghs ~450 lbs. How heavy is their truck engine?

 

[Evolution1980]

I'm still wondering about the V-10 vs. V-8 thing. They have a V-10 putting out 500hp/500ft.lb. ( now ) and more soon. The Z-06 has a 500hp 427 SMALL BLOCK. So if Chevy does a big block or a V-10 ( theoretically ), we'd be crankin' out 700hp/650ft.lb?

I think people get all goo goo over the 427 small block. Small block..big block...truck engine...whatever. What matters, IMHO, is the displacement, the amount of power generated per ci, and the reliability of said engine to handle upgrades/modifications.

One of the reasons that GM is getting 427ci out of a small block is because of the paper-thin distance between cylinders and the stoke. Otherwise, they'd be foreced to go to a big(ger) block. That's why the original 427's were big blocks...it was necessity as they didn't have the technology back then to make 427ci reliable in the small block. To surmise what GM could do with an additional two cylinders is purely speculation and could be as high or low as one wants to be within the physical limits.

I don't know anything about Dodge's V10, but I'm going to guess that it's cylinders walls aren't nearly as thin as the LS7. Thus, it could be surmised that the Dodge's engine isn't as 'fragile', for lack of a better word right now. What if Dodge used the same clearance between cylinders walls as the LS7? What would be it's displacement then? What would that do to the HP and Tq numbers?

I think it's somewhat silly to try and compare the two except for exactly what they are, AS they are. So the Dodge uses more displacement to get similar power as the vette. So??? I believe they use different technologies to get to that point as well (e.g., cam setups) Just as the imports can lay claim to big numbers using smaller displacement than the vette. "Oh, you need 8 cylers and 7L to get what we are getting in 4 or 6 cyls and 4L." So what? Different approaches to reach the same end result. I think beyond that, the next question is that of reliability and/or the ability to make modifications without getting beyond the threshold where the engine becomes a grenade.
What can Dodge do with their V10 if they really want to bump up the power? Does the LS7 have the same leeway? I don't know, I'm not that technical.

 

[NORTY]

Both FORD & DC have huge V-10's developed for sportscars.

 

[trs]

Their V-10, etc.

Then let 'em run those at the Nordschleife. Z-06 did the 7min43sec run. Next....

btw, the latest issue of Road & Track has another comparison that the Z-06 won. This one included the Porsche 911 GT3 ( normally aspirated 3.6 l ) and the Lotus eliese ( sp ).

 

[3dale1]

Have you ever noticed how guys who drive Vipers are usually, up in your face, mine is bigger than yours, kind or people;ad whereas Corvette guys are usually more like, "float like a butterfly sting like a bee", kind of guys.:cool

You couldn't be any more correct. Not to hijack, but the Dodge TRUCK guys are the most guilty of this. :bash

 

[tankman]

Word around the campfire over in Auburn Hills is Benz is taking all the design and engineering of the Viper back to Germany so they can handle that as they seem fit.

 

[Evolution1980]

Word around the campfire over in Auburn Hills is Benz is taking all the design and engineering of the Viper back to Germany so they can handle that as they seem fit.

Hmmm... a Dodge vehicle, massaged by SRT, massaged by AMG. Interesting notion. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[tankman]

Hmmm... a Dodge vehicle, massaged by SRT, massaged by AMG. Interesting notion. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I was at the local Benz dealer lately looking into a cl500. It had the AMG performance upgrade. When I asked what that included, the dealer said a bunch of bs and basiclly just the wheel upgrade!!!! AMG made no engine or direct performance upgrades to it!! Seemed like not much for $5000

Times sure change!

 

[agentf1]

There are 2 packages, the AMG package that is just wheels and ground effects and then there is the AMG 55 which is a MAJOR perfomance upgrade similar to BMW having a M package that is just wheels and then a real M3 which is a V8 with 100 extra hp.

AMG knows how to get some HP out of an engine.

 

[Gersh]

I think people get all goo goo over the 427 small block. Small block..big block...truck engine...whatever. What matters, IMHO, is the displacement, the amount of power generated per ci, and the reliability of said engine to handle upgrades/modifications.

One of the reasons that GM is getting 427ci out of a small block is because of the paper-thin distance between cylinders and the stoke. Otherwise, they'd be foreced to go to a big(ger) block. That's why the original 427's were big blocks...it was necessity as they didn't have the technology back then to make 427ci reliable in the small block. To surmise what GM could do with an additional two cylinders is purely speculation and could be as high or low as one wants to be within the physical limits.

I don't know anything about Dodge's V10, but I'm going to guess that it's cylinders walls aren't nearly as thin as the LS7. Thus, it could be surmised that the Dodge's engine isn't as 'fragile', for lack of a better word right now. What if Dodge used the same clearance between cylinders walls as the LS7? What would be it's displacement then? What would that do to the HP and Tq numbers?

I think it's somewhat silly to try and compare the two except for exactly what they are, AS they are. So the Dodge uses more displacement to get similar power as the vette. So??? I believe they use different technologies to get to that point as well (e.g., cam setups) Just as the imports can lay claim to big numbers using smaller displacement than the vette. "Oh, you need 8 cylers and 7L to get what we are getting in 4 or 6 cyls and 4L." So what? Different approaches to reach the same end result. I think beyond that, the next question is that of reliability and/or the ability to make modifications without getting beyond the threshold where the engine becomes a grenade.
What can Dodge do with their V10 if they really want to bump up the power? Does the LS7 have the same leeway? I don't know, I'm not that technical.

I like that philosophy--what is, is. Speculating about what could be, "if only", is like jerking off; it's fun, but really doesn't accomplish much, and certainly doesn't prove anything.
It kind of reminds me of people who want to be President. They never will be, and as long as it's just fantasy, why stop there--I certainly don't want to be President, or even a king.... If I'm going to live in fantasyland, I'm going to be God!