Question: Is this block correct or a restamp?

[VetteVirgin]

I just ran across this CU block on ebay, item #220522271191.
My problem with it is that the assembly date is Feb 6 (which matches the 5675 vin) but the casting code is Apr 1? Is the D11 possibly NOT the casting date?
If this block is correct it is less than 400 off my 61's vin which is closer than I ever expected to find, but if its just a restamp I'll keep looking.
If I wanted to go the restamp route, I think I would just buy item #360183861934.


Thanks for any input you can provide!

DT

Note: After inspecting the photo again, the "D" may actually be a "B". There is definitely the outline of a "B" within the lines of the "D" if you look closely...

 

[redvett]

I just ran across this CU block on ebay, item #220522271191.
My problem with it is that the assembly date is Feb 6 (which matches the 5675 vin) but the casting code is Apr 1? Is the D11 possibly NOT the casting date?
If this block is correct it is less than 400 off my 61's vin which is closer than I ever expected to find, but if its just a restamp I'll keep looking.
If I wanted to go the restamp route, I think I would just buy item #360183861934.


Thanks for any input you can provide!

DT

Note: After inspecting the photo again, the "D" may actually be a "B". There is definitely the outline of a "B" within the lines of the "D" if you look closely...

You have to understand the the Flint plant built many engines and there were lots of blocks sitting in racks for sometimes more than a year, from the time they were cast in Bay City to when V8 engine used them. Do some research with some of Noland Adams books on this subject. If your car was built after a reasonable time of the casting date your good to go. If it was my choice i would go for the second choice as its hot tanked and magnafluxed.

 

[VetteVirgin]

You have to understand the the Flint plant built many engines and there were lots of blocks sitting in racks for sometimes more than a year, from the time they were cast in Bay City to when V8 engine used them. Do some research with some of Noland Adams books on this subject. If your car was built after a reasonable time of the casting date your good to go.

Thanks but I think you misunderstood my question. I know the approx build date of my car and the assembly date stamped on this engine is as close a match as I will likely find.
My question is regarding the conflicting casting date as posted for this block. You can't assemble an engine on Feb 6, 1961 if the block wasn't cast until April 1, 1961! Of course if that "D" is actually a "B", then all is right!

 

[redvett]

Thanks but I think you misunderstood my question. I know the approx build date of my car and the assembly date stamped on this engine is as close a match as I will likely find.
My question is regarding the conflicting casting date as posted for this block. You can't assemble an engine on Feb 6, 1961 if the block wasn't cast until April 1, 1961! Of course if that "D" is actually a "B", then all is right!

I was just trying to clear up some notions that there is a close window from casting to production of the car.

 

[VetteVirgin]

I was just trying to clear up some notions that there is a close window from casting to production of the car.

Well, if this is actually a B11 casting, this block was cast on February 1st and assembled only 5 days later on Feb 6th.
While there were periods when castings sat around for months, there were also periods where they were building them as fast as they could get them from the foundry.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

If your goal is NCRS judging, I think you'd be looking at a chunky deduction for the stamp pad.

 

[VetteVirgin]

If your goal is NCRS judging, I think you'd be looking at a chunky deduction for the stamp pad.

My goal is to eventually make it as correct as possible, considering that the original driveline is gone. I may be mistaken but isnt it impossible to expect to have an NOM car successfully NCRS judged unless you want to go the phoney restamp route? 61 is the first serial number stamped year, so the convenience of simply finding a correct casting and assembly date to pass NCRS is out the window.
Again, I am probably mistaken, but in terms of value, my understanding is that for a "restored" vehicle, value from highest to lowest with regards to driveline originality would be:
1. Original numbers matching.
2. Correct date codes, correct casting, correct Corvette suffix
3. Correct date codes, correct casting, blank, restamped or non-Corvette suffix.
4. Correct casting.
5. Correct displacement.
6. Everything else.
Of course restomods fall entirely outside this hierarchy. I'm only referring to cars that are in original/restored condition with original and reproduction parts.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I may be mistaken but isnt it impossible to expect to have an NOM car successfully NCRS judged unless you want to go the phoney restamp route?

Not true at all. You could show up with a Studebaker straight six under the hood and still come away with a Flight Certificate. Won't be Top Flight, but there's nothing wrong with a Second or Third flight. I'd be proud to have any one of those.

If your goal is Top Flight or bust then it's best to have a decent engine , but the pad is not that big a deal contrary to what Bubba might have informed you.

Out of 4500 possible points for the entire car, the stamp pad is worth only 88 total, broken down as 38 for the stamp pad surface, 25 for the engine ass'y stamp and 25 for the VIN derivative. These are all scored independently. For rerence, a burnt out light bulb or a non-functioning ciggy lighter is 25 points each, so the hit for the stamp pad is pretty minor and resonble.

Casting number is a big hit 350 points, casting date is 175 so this block might work well in this respect if those details are correct.

When it comes to value, best not talk about that and judging in the same breath. :ugh

 

[VetteVirgin]

Not true at all. You could show up with a Studebaker straight six under the hood and still come away with a Flight Certificate. Won't be Top Flight, but there's nothing wrong with a Second or Third flight. I'd be proud to have any one of those.

If your goal is Top Flight or bust then it's best to have a decent engine , but the pad is not that big a deal contrary to what Bubba might have informed you.

Out of 4500 possible points for the entire car, the stamp pad is worth only 88 total, broken down as 38 for the stamp pad surface, 25 for the engine ass'y stamp and 25 for the VIN derivative. These are all scored independently. For rerence, a burnt out light bulb or a non-functioning ciggy lighter is 25 points each, so the hit for the stamp pad is pretty minor and resonble.

Casting number is a big hit 350 points, casting date is 175 so this block might work well in this respect if those details are correct.

When it comes to value, best not talk about that and judging in the same breath. :ugh

Thanks for the NCRS info Mikey! I had never seriously considered having the car judged based on my own wrong assumption that the MIA original driveline was an insurmountable hurdle. No Bubba info just too much time watching car auctions and reading Keith Martin instead of actually investigating what NCRS judging actually involved.
My primary goal (beyond enhancing value) is to have a 61 that drives like a 61 instead of the worlds crappiest handling 72. More sports car, less muscle car.

So, getting back to the original reason for this thread... does anyone think that "D" is really a "B"?

 

[67l36driver]

Very well can be a "B". JM .02

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

Ah, could B a B, but I'd want to C it in person before I D-cided, Eh. Otherwise Forget it, Guy.

 

[JohnZ]

I think it's a "B", but I don't care much for the pad. With the correct casting number and date, you'd only be out 88 points (same as if the block was decked and the pad was blank).

 

[3XBLACK67]

My goal is to eventually make it as correct as possible, considering that the original driveline is gone. I may be mistaken but isnt it impossible to expect to have an NOM car successfully NCRS judged unless you want to go the phoney restamp route? 61 is the first serial number stamped year, so the convenience of simply finding a correct casting and assembly date to pass NCRS is out the window.
Again, I am probably mistaken, but in terms of value, my understanding is that for a "restored" vehicle, value from highest to lowest with regards to driveline originality would be:
1. Original numbers matching.
2. Correct date codes, correct casting, correct Corvette suffix
3. Correct date codes, correct casting, blank, restamped or non-Corvette suffix.
4. Correct casting.
5. Correct displacement.
6. Everything else.
Of course restomods fall entirely outside this hierarchy. I'm only referring to cars that are in original/restored condition with original and reproduction parts.

In my view, your grouping of cars for value purposes is correct. There are always exceptions. Recently, the hot ticket is unrestored, original cars. A lot of people are talking about NCRS and Bloomington Gold judging and value in the same breathe. The certifications have become a huge selling point.

 

[JohnZ]

The certifications have become a huge selling point.

True, but they're not really "certifications"; NCRS doesn't "certify" anything. An NCRS Flight award simply means that the car met the judging standard on the day it was judged, and the judging standard is that the components had the appearance of originality, not that they are the original components. The same is true of the Bloomington Gold/Silver/Bronze awards; I judge in both venues.

 

[VetteVirgin]

John,
How big of a deduction is aftermarket A/C (Hotrod Air) on a C1?

 

[JohnZ]

John,
How big of a deduction is aftermarket A/C (Hotrod Air) on a C1?

You wouldn't get a deduction for the aftermarket A/C system itself, but you'd get deductions for all the missing original heater parts and for any body modifications (holes, etc.) made to install the aftermarket system. I know of several midyears that have Top Flighted with Vintage Air A/C systems.

 

[3XBLACK67]

True, but they're not really "certifications"; NCRS doesn't "certify" anything. An NCRS Flight award simply means that the car met the judging standard on the day it was judged, and the judging standard is that the components had the appearance of originality, not that they are the original components. The same is true of the Bloomington Gold/Silver/Bronze awards; I judge in both venues.

I don't mean to be argumentative or critical of the NCRS or Bloomington Gold judging process. I belong to the NCRS, and have had my car judged twice without complaint. No matter what you call it, an NCRS flight award or a Bloomington Gold award increases the value of the car in most instances. That is the only point I want to make.

 

[Vettehead Mikey]

I don't mean to be argumentative or critical of the NCRS or Bloomington Gold judging process. I belong to the NCRS, and have had my car judged twice without complaint. No matter what you call it, an NCRS flight award or a Bloomington Gold award increases the value of the car in most instances. That is the only point I want to make.

You're right that there is an uninformed segment of the buying populace, but it's a shame that they're not better informed.