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mallory distributor 474B201A D70-9

No good. Now I will move number one piston up to top of cyl. and make sure rotor points to number one wire. I guess I'm a little dim witted, but how do you know if you are on the spark, top dead center of the four cycle; and not the other TDC of the four cycle. (exhaust). Find some one with a compression tester? Still wouldn't tell you. Guess I'll sleep on it.
 
Thank you just saw your reply.Going to #6, makes sense. I did time it not to long ago. So I was able to see the mark. I agree about the light going off and spark is present. I did disconnect the ECM wire, to time it. The engine is a rebuild with about 1500 or so miles. It did run well before it just Quit. It is spraying fuel. Have to get up early for work, I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks for your reply. Larry
 
You are correct about the timing light firing indicating that you have spark. The easiest way to be sure that the piston is rising on the compression stroke as opposed to the exhaust stroke, is to remove the spark plug for the number one cylinder. Then, as you rotate the engine, put your finger or thumb over the plug hole. As you turn the engine you will feel the air rushing out of the cylinder as the piston rises on the compression stroke. Once you know the engine is on the proper stroke, continue rotating the engine until the timing marks indicate 10° - 12° BTDC. With the engine in this position, now, install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the number 1 spark plug terminal in the cap. If the distributor won't drop all the way, you can remove the distributir and turn the oil pump drive shaft with a screw driver to align the oil pump shaft slot with the distributor shaft tang. If you are positive the distributor gear is properly engaged with the cam gear and would rather not mess with the oil pump shaft, you can simply crank the engine, with the distributor in place and as it turns, the distributor will drop when the tang aligns with the slot in the oil pump shaft on the way around. The timing light should tell you if you were right about being on the correct tooth. If you were wrong, pull the number 1 plug and start over. Don't forget you can rotate the distributor body quite a bit to make the correction if necessary. You can even move plug wires.

I'm not sure where we are on getting your engine running. You say you have spark, and by now, we know the timing is set close enough to start the engine. I would start the engine and let it warm up with the EST wire connected. Once it is warm and you are ready to set the timing, disconnect the EST. Set the timimg, snug the distributor, double check the distributoir didn't move when you snugged it, then shut the engine off. Reconnect the EST and disconnect the battery for a few seconds to reset the code 42 that would have set from running the engine with the EST disconnected while setting the timing. The spec for all C4s with a Gen 1 engine L83 & L98, is 6° BTDC. I would set it to spec at least until you are sure it is running properly.

Let me know what works and what doesn't. Any questions?

RACE ON!!!
 
I wanted to thank you for the great post. This takes time and effort. I consider it a great favor. If I can figure out how to print it, I will. This would have saved me time before. I thought I had every thing marked. It wouldn't drop in all the way. Did not think to do as you said. Now I have turned the rotor 180 degrees. I'll turn it back. Also try to find the mark with plug wire 6. Then I'll try to do the removal of #1 plug and look for the air coming out.
I remember I changed a HEI coil in a parking lot in Florida, at a NAPA store. This was in 1981. Put it in one though off . Got it home.(lived there a few years). 45 mph all the way, then fixed it. A 1977 Caddy. was a little similar.
Thank you CFI, Will post back when I can, Larry Breen
 
Marking the distributor (body to manifold and rotor to body) is a great time saver. If you've lost the orientation of your marks or if you have turned the engine, just follow the instructions above. Number 6 fires 360° crank degrees from #1 or 180° cam or distributor degrees from #1. Checking #6 at this point serves no purpose, but if like... All Gen I SBC and all Chevy conventional V8s (and many other brand) distributors install in a similar manner. If you get a tooth off, you can often rotate the distrbutor bidy to cimpensate. You can also relocate the plug wires in the cap. You can put the #1 plug wire anywhere you want. After #1 is set, the other wires have to follow the firing order.

"Now I have turned the rotor 180 degrees. I'll turn it back. Also try to find the mark with plug wire 6. Then I'll try to do the removal of #1 plug and look for the air coming out."

If you know it is 180° out and you know where it belongs, and the engine hasn't been turned, just put it back where it belongs. I'm not sure why you plan to "mark with plug wire 6", or even what that means. As I said, if you know where the distributor belongs and the engine hasn't been moved, just drop it in. Also if you know where it belongs, there is no need to remove the #1 plug. Removing the plug and locating TDC. or just befire TDC, on the compression stroke is only necessary if the engine has been turned or your marks have been lost. If you know where it goes, just stab it in. If it won't drop all the way, either turn the oil pump shaft with a screw driver, until it does drop, or as I said, if you are confident you have it in the right spot, just crank the engine until it does drop. I think you are maybe making this more difficult than necessary. Good luck.

RACE ON!!!
 
My friend, you are right. I could mess up a two car parade. What I meant before was, Check the timing with the timing gun; using plug number 6 , but I realized I was at 180 degrees off.(remembered), Changed it back. Then I moved the crank with a braker bar and socket to 12 degrees btc. Then inserted the rotor at #1. Had to turn oil pump, so it would drop in. Now she will try to start. Ran twice for 1 second.Will try today, as you said, leaving the ecm connected. Warm it up then disconnect wire , time it, then reconnect. I think the plugs may be a little fouled from all the fooling around trying to start it. Will clean them. Thank you Larry
 
Hi,
Just to kind of update. I have replaced the pick up coil and ignition module. Looking for a quick fix. To no avail. I have started to dig in to the FSM and even the Haynes (little funky). Have found proper voltage at the ESC module and at the pink wire on the distributor. Have read of the function of the ESC, not what I first thought. The car should fire up even if this was bad. Remember, the coil tested good, the pick up coil bad.
Need to focus on the books and follow through. Between work and house etc. hope to get one of my adult sons to help this weekend. I will not give up. Thanks for your support and the ears, Thank you Larry
i have an 82 and i a;so work at advance so i know what your talking about with the distributor. the only performance one i found for the 7 pin module is d.u.i. that can be bought threw mid america. they make a really good product to them oem spec with stronger parts and one of the highest voltages on the coil out there.
 
i have an 82 and i a;so work at advance so i know what your talking about with the distributor. the only performance one i found for the 7 pin module is d.u.i. that can be bought threw mid america. they make a really good product to them oem spec with stronger parts and one of the highest voltages on the coil out there.
The HEI is a great distributor. I don't know of anything wrong or bad about the DUI, but any so called up grade is a waste of money unless your engine has a lot more cylinder pressure than stock, and it NEEDS more voltage to jump the plug gap than the HEI can deliver. Remember, no matter "hot" the ignition system, it will produce no more voltage than necessary to jump the plug gap. If it takes 10,000 volts to jump the gap (typical) your "one of the highest voltages on the coil" will produce only the 10,000 volts necessary, the same as the stock HEI. The HEI will produce much more voltage than any mildly modified engine will ever need. A "hot" ignition system, often is capable of producing higher volts to jump a higher resistant gap, but it takes quite a bit of modifications to require it. Meanwhile all that money spent on that exotic ignition is only producing the same volts as the old reliable HEI.

You say "stronger parts". Really? Like what? Do you have a lot of weak parts break on your HEI? Like what? A high performance ignition can be a great asset, IF you need it. If you have no need, you get no benefit.

Larry, let us know how your project progresses. Good luck and let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

RACE ON!!!
 
Thanks to both of you for replying. Good info.
CFI, that is very logical, about the HEI. It did give me a voltage rap last night. My kid, (27), thought I had the big one. What a laugh. Plenty of spark there! The time has come when I now have a few minutes to try the Vette.....Will let you know what happens Thanks Larry
 
Hi, car all back together, just went for a long ride. Many thanks for the help. These cars are a lot of fun to drive, makes you forget all the work and frustration, when they are down.
You also said if I had any other questions.....
This motor was bored .060. or 60 thousands ,over. Brand new Delphi radiator, stock though. Cooling fan on by a switch I put in to help it keep cooler. Oil temp was just around 245. Water around 210. On highway driving. That's now.I guess this is ok? Before I took thermostat out, it ran, water temp around 240, 245. That was with a 160 thermostat. Tested stat to see that it opened, in boiling water. I guess I'm looking for the range it should be. Should the oil temp be that high?Thanks, Larry
 
This motor was bored .060. or 60 thousands ,over. Brand new Delphi radiator, stock though. Cooling fan on by a switch I put in to help it keep cooler. Oil temp was just around 245. Water around 210. On highway driving. That's now.I guess this is ok? Before I took thermostat out, it ran, water temp around 240, 245. That was with a 160 thermostat. Tested stat to see that it opened, in boiling water. I guess I'm looking for the range it should be. Should the oil temp be that high?Thanks, Larry
OK, maybe, but hotter than mine. My engine has never been apart so your thinner cylinder walls could be part if it. The new Delphi radiator is the stock configuration with a single row aluminum core with the plastic tanks? If so, that shouldn't be a problem. How long has it been in there? When you installed the radiator, did you do a good, thorough flush of the cooling system? Again, how long ago? When you say, "Before I took thermostat out, it ran..." are you saying that you are running the car without a thermostat? Bad news. That is worse than using a 160° thermostat. Why did you change from the stock stat? What was the reason? You DO know what a thermostat is, how it works, and it's purpose, right?

Unless your engine is brand fresh new, and the higher than necessary temps are the result of an engine still not broken in, I suspect an air flow problem. On the highway, with just the air flow of the car's speed, 50+ mph, my engine temp is just a couple of degrees above the thermostat temp. In 100°+ degrees ambient temps, maybe 10° to 15° higher. Below 60° ambient, the stat is barely open.

What temp fan switch are you using? On and off temps? We'll get that beast cooled down a bit without compromising good sense.

RACE ON!!!
 
The HEI is a great distributor. I don't know of anything wrong or bad about the DUI, but any so called up grade is a waste of money unless your engine has a lot more cylinder pressure than stock, and it NEEDS more voltage to jump the plug gap than the HEI can deliver. Remember, no matter "hot" the ignition system, it will produce no more voltage than necessary to jump the plug gap. If it takes 10,000 volts to jump the gap (typical) your "one of the highest voltages on the coil" will produce only the 10,000 volts necessary, the same as the stock HEI. The HEI will produce much more voltage than any mildly modified engine will ever need. A "hot" ignition system, often is capable of producing higher volts to jump a higher resistant gap, but it takes quite a bit of modifications to require it. Meanwhile all that money spent on that exotic ignition is only producing the same volts as the old reliable HEI.

You say "stronger parts". Really? Like what? Do you have a lot of weak parts break on your HEI? Like what? A high performance ignition can be a great asset, IF you need it. If you have no need, you get no benefit.

Larry, let us know how your project progresses. Good luck and let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

RACE ON!!!
i see what you are talking about with the voltage but in the same instance although it may be over kill it really is an awesome distributor for the buck and a big issue with the stock hei set up is that the ignition module cant charge very well at the higher rpm witch kills your top end. that can be fixed with any of the after market modules out there but then you start getting into crossing brands if you want to get the better stuff, which i have never been a fan of. im guilty of doing it though just because of the fact there is nothing wrong with mine yet so there is no need for the dui set up yet. and to get to the strength thing with me working in the parts store i see it all the with parts breaking on the stock distributor and wires shorting out inside of them the gear at the bottom shearing the pin and things like that all the time. it just makes me feel a little better know that the company didnt try to cut back on cost by using even slightly weaker parts because anything is only as good as its weakest link.

also let me know any of you if any of you guys are looking for any parts i have alot of sources that i have at advance that the common person walking in dosent know about.
 
OK, maybe, but hotter than mine. My engine has never been apart so your thinner cylinder walls could be part if it. The new Delphi radiator is the stock configuration with a single row aluminum core with the plastic tanks? If so, that shouldn't be a problem. How long has it been in there? When you installed the radiator, did you do a good, thorough flush of the cooling system? Again, how long ago? When you say, "Before I took thermostat out, it ran..." are you saying that you are running the car without a thermostat? Bad news. That is worse than using a 160° thermostat. Why did you change from the stock stat? What was the reason? You DO know what a thermostat is, how it works, and it's purpose, right?

Unless your engine is brand fresh new, and the higher than necessary temps are the result of an engine still not broken in, I suspect an air flow problem. On the highway, with just the air flow of the car's speed, 50+ mph, my engine temp is just a couple of degrees above the thermostat temp. In 100°+ degrees ambient temps, maybe 10° to 15° higher. Below 60° ambient, the stat is barely open.

What temp fan switch are you using? On and off temps? We'll get that beast cooled down a bit without compromising good sense.

RACE ON!!!
it seems your good with cooling systems, i have a small problem with mine cooling at about 225-230 range on extended drives which seem weird with the fact i have a two row aluminum radiator heavy duty cooling aluminum water pump and a 160 thermostat. i wasnt to keen on putting that thermostat in but i put the hypertech thermo chip in and it is required to have that 160 in there (not sure 100% why though). the system was flushed when the radiator was put in 2 years ago and once more when the water pump and thermostat was put in 3 months ago. if you have any ideas please let me know because i like to take mine out on long drives and this limits me to how far i can go.

thanks Eric
 
i see what you are talking about with the voltage but in the same instance although it may be over kill it really is an awesome distributor for the buck and a big issue with the stock hei set up is that the ignition module cant charge very well at the higher rpm witch kills your top end.
Is that right? At what rpm does the HEI fail to charge well? Does your Crossfire turn too many rpms for a HEI? I haven't noticed any ignition break up at 6000+ rpms with mine. You must turn your Crossfire to higher rpms that that. Pick up coils and ingnition modules are replacement parts for a HEI. If an HEI has wires shorting out inside or has sheared the drive gear roll pin, it must have been result of abuse, misuse, poor repair techniques, and neglect. Wires, unmolested, rarely short out. Someone mis-routed the wires where they were able to wear ir burn. I have never seen a deitributor gear pin shear. Was the engine run out of oil causing the distributor to freeze up? Are you saying that a Davis roll pin is better, stronger than that used by Delco? Besides that idea being crazy, so would the person that spent a bunch of money on a distributor to get a stronger roll pin that almost never fails.



it seems your good with cooling systems, i have a small problem with mine cooling at about 225-230 range on extended drives which seem weird with the fact i have a two row aluminum radiator heavy duty cooling aluminum water pump and a 160 thermostat.

thanks Eric
You should know better than to install that 160° thermostat, other than, maybe, just for racing. Besides all the harm that can be done with that stat, did you do a quantitative test on that chip? With a HyperTech ThermoMaster chip in my Crossfire it ran slightly slower in the 1/4 mile. Did you receive a measured improvement with your chip or just seat of the pants? With a two row aluminum radiator your car should be spitting ice cubes as you drive down the road. You must have something wrong. Air flow is a problem on C4s. Maintenance is the key. That thermostat won't contribute to it running hot, but it won't help cool it either. With no more info all I can recommend it to clean, flush and double check that everything is working properly. Pay close attention to the air flow, to and from the radiator. There is no good reason for it to run that warm at speed, especially with that radiator.

RACE ON!!!
 
Very interesting replies. Have been away for a week. To try to answer your very well thought out reply. This motor was a brand new rebuild. All cleaned up and out, freshly painted up, new freeze plugs and new motor mounts. Steel crank, mild cam, bigger heads. new pistons. Ported intake (crossfire), Larger throttle bodies. It looks and runs like a nice rebuild.I dropped the pan and checked it out. I ran the coolant until warm then emptied it by removing the hoses and the radiator. Radiator leaked when I got the car home. You were right about the type of radiator. I've heard of the train of thought that says, running with out a thermostat doesn't offer enough restriction or hold back to let the coolant have enough time in the radiator to cool off. It seems to make sense. I take it you agree, my friend. This car runs cooler with out the stat? Would it make any sense to put in the stat housing, as a restricter, (no guts). Thus allowing more time for the coolant to cool off in the radiator. Or start out with a fresh 160 stat? Having only 1500 miles on the motor I've owned for about a year, I guess it should run cooler after a few thousand more miles. The engine came with a 160 degree stat. I bought a 195, I believe; and didn't put it in because it ran so warm on the 160. I did also put in synthetic oil with a quart of lucas, if that matters. Thank you CFI for taking the time to reply. I don't type very fast nor explain very well. I really am thank full for your thoughts. I do sound a bit frumpy. I wish I had your savy. Maybe in a year and a half, when I hope to retire, I can learn more about these cars that were ahead of their time as compared to the rest of the 84 auto line up of their day.Thanks, Larry
 
I really like where you said it should be spitting out ice cubes with the other fella's larger radiator! Cool! You are the man! LB
 
Sorry for all the replies, I have a K&N filter and have cleaned the condeser coils in the front, LB
 
My car runs cool with a 160 stat in my 85. When I first start it it heats up to about 200 I think to burn off any moisture and then drops down to 160- 175. But my fan is running steady maybe that helps. Good luck with your vette.
 
Hi, I would be afraid that your stat is some how sticking. I have never heard of a car that heats up and then runs cool like that. I guess if it works for you that is cool. It sounds like you keep a close eye on it. That's always a good sign. Unlike my teen age son who just drives and when there is a problem, it's always costly. Much better our way to keep a close watch. I like the black on black combo. Same as my 92. Nothing pretter, when clean. Thanks LB
 
Hi, I would be afraid that your stat is some how sticking. I have never heard of a car that heats up and then runs cool like that. I guess if it works for you that is cool. It sounds like you keep a close eye on it. That's always a good sign. Unlike my teen age son who just drives and when there is a problem, it's always costly. Much better our way to keep a close watch. I like the black on black combo. Same as my 92. Nothing pretter, when clean. Thanks LB

My water pump went, and I thought the digital readout was faulty, then it got real hot. So I made it to the shop and had them put a new water pump in and a new 160 stat. And now I watch it all the time, sometimes these vettes can be stressful. It runs cool now.
 

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