New Member, C-5 still stalls

[Toms007]

Since I have a 99, I was interested in looking at the video, but I am getting a 'not found' msg on vettetube when I click the link in the about thread.

Rob reconfigured VetteTube and I'll bet my links are no longer good. I'll see what I can do to fix it later.......kind of busy right now.

 

[Otter]

Rob reconfigured VetteTube and I'll bet my links are no longer good. I'll see what I can do to fix it later.......kind of busy right now.

Found it, here are the links


Paul Koerner Seminar on C5 Column Lock Issues | VetteTube

Paul Koerner Seminar on Corvette C5 Colum Lock Issues Part 2 | VetteTube

 

[hoosierdaddy]

C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013

Hey while you guys have your thinking caps on what can you tell me about this; C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013?[h=1]C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013[/h][h=1]C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013[/h] Have you used them and where does it plug into, cost; it appears to be a simple fuse; is it worth messing with, this issue doesn't happen very often but when it does it's a little pain in the a$$?

Hate to horn in on someones elses time so no hurry on my end, just curious more than anything

Thanks,
-Bill

 

[dadaroo]

I know that most of CL issues are battery/voltage related which can include a bad ground. With that said, if the voltage does get low then you can't start and drive your car since the BCM does not know if the column is locked or not. Also in 99 and later cars you can fry the CL relay and then you are DOA.

One does not have to install a CL fix, but it is very popular for a reason. Dealer CL recalls were not a permanent fix.

 

[dadaroo]

Hey while you guys have your thinking caps on what can you tell me about this; C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013?C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013

C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013

Have you used them and where does it plug into, cost; it appears to be a simple fuse; is it worth messing with, this issue doesn't happen very often but when it does it's a little pain in the a$$?

Hate to horn in on someones elses time so no hurry on my end, just curious more than anything

Thanks,
-Bill

Bill, can you please create a new Thread for this? We are already at post 44 on this one and we have just scratched the surface to help the OP. Be glad to discuss this as I have installed one myself.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013 - New Post fellers


C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013

Started a new post. . . . . . Actually found that info dealing with this that Toms007 posted and wanted to ask before I forgot, I too am on drugs, most of them prescribed by a doctor and retired last year so got plenty of time, well I guess I really don't know about the time!!! That may very well depend on the drugs, LOL

 

[Lakotah]

ground wire

No Problem,apology accepted!

1st thing!
11.7 volts at key up isn't enough!
C5's require a minimum of 12.5 v at key up or the electronics system won't function properly! A fully charged 12v car battery should carry 12.8-13.2 v,GM's requirements for 97-03 C5's (550 CCA/120 RC) minimum!

Otherwise the column lock actuator may or may not move into the unlock or run position in the column,If you don't hear it at key up,the car will start but will shut the fuel off as soon as it starts moving!

Have the battery charged and load tested,clean and inspect All cable and B+ connections,even the short smaller B+ cable at the power distribution center.
Disassemble,Clean and Inspect All body and chassis grounds,there are several!
(This alone could cure All your problems!)

gmjunkie I found three ground wires right below the battery where the original battery had leaked it's acid years ago that need repair. Even with a thorough cleaning of that entire area it still has done some damage. I'll take care of that this weekend after I get my C-5 out of the shop today. It's in to have new bushings put at each end of the front transverse spring. I'll have my mechanic do a load check on the battery and check it's true voltage. Oh, and an answer to one of your previous questions, I changed the ignition cylinder lock yesterday. And yes I do hear what I believe is the column lock actuator. Thanks for your help.

 

[Lakotah]

Column lock

Everything is good. GMJunkie and I chatted when we understood it was just an honest misunderstanding. We are both here to help you.

I agree with his voltage concern.

Have you ever had a NON GM dealer Column Lock fix? When you remove your ignition key and try to turn the steering wheel left of right does it lock?

Soon we are going to possibly need you to pull your DIC codes. They can be pulled directly from the dash, no scanner needed. Most scanners just pull emissions codes and you can pull over 200 from all the 11 or so modules right from the dash. Here is how. At the end I have a video to show also.



READING YOUR C5 EngineDiagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)

This procedure should be carried out any time you experience a problem withyour C5. Most inexpensive store bought aftermarket code readers will ONLY readpower train DTC’s. Reading the DTC’s with the C5 built in code reader willallow you to read ALL the modules in the vehicle.

The Diagnostic Display Mode is entered with the following procedure:
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the RESET button to turn off any warning messages. (i.e. door open,trunk open ect)
3) Press and hold the OPTIONS button
4) While holding OPTIONS, press FUEL button four times within a 10 -secondperiod.

Initially, the on-board diagnostics go into an Automatic Mode which will cyclethrough each module and shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS- RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will bedisplayed for each module. ( i.e. PCM = 4 codes) If none are present in a givenmodule, you will see No More Codes on the display.

There are two types of diagnostic codes, Current and History designated with aletter suffix, “C” or “H”. A current code indicates a malfunction is present inthe module displaying data. A history code indicates a problem existed sometimein the last 40 or 50 ignition cycles. When not accompanied by a current code ofthe same number, it's potential evidence of a previous problem, now resolved,that was not removed by clearing the codes. More likely it's an indication ofan intermittent malfunction.

Intermittent codes are the most challenging of the diagnostics. An intermittentcode may have happened once, may have happened more than once but isinconsistent or may be happening on a regular basis but not at the time thecodes are displayed. History codes can also be caused by a current malfunctionin a system that is not operating at the time codes are displayed. An exampleis the rear window defogger which doesn't operate until the Body Control Moduledetects engine rpm. For history codes set by a module that does not operatewith the key on and engine off, a special diagnostic tool called a Scan Testeris necessary to properly diagnose the malfunction.

Once the system has displayed all modules, it goes into the manual mode whichallows selection of each module using combinations of Driver Information Centerbuttons. Manual mode can also be entered during the automatic sequence bypressing any button except E/M. Once the display shows Manual Diagnostics,select a module by pressing the OPTIONS button to go forward or the TRIP buttonto go back. Once a module is selected, a code is displayed, and if more thanone are present; press GAGES to go forward or FUEL to go back.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press E/M. If you want to erase codesin a given module, press RESET To reset the codes once in manual mode, pressand hold RESET until it displays NO CODES Press OPTIONS to go to the nextmodule. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computermodules.
NOTE!! Only reset the codes IF you want to - it is NOT necessary to do this.Clearing a code does not repair a problem. You are simply erasing the evidenceof it in the module's memory. If you clear the code/s, and extinguish the CheckEngine Light, your emissions status ready will NOT allow you to pass anemissions test until you have completed the required driving cycles. There area few body module DTC’s that if set will prevent the module from operatingproperly. Once the DTC is cleared, the module will return to full function.This is not true for power train DTCs.

If you have never read and cleared your codes, there will probably be a lot ofold history DTCs. It is recommended that you clear your codes and see if anycome back during a driving cycle. Those are the ones that you need toconcentrate on diagnosing.

Once you have the codes, the next question is: What to do with the information?
First, consult the factory service manual. Any serious C5 Do-It-Yourself ownershould invest in the Corvette Service Manual of the appropriate model year. TheService Manual is really a requirement if you want to understand and work on yourC5.

NOTE and a WARNING. You can read the DTCs while the engine is running. I pullmine up all the time while driving.
WARNING. Don’t become distracted while reading DTCs while your driving andcause an accident!!!!! Use common sense and drive safe.

These are some very good C5 Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) explanation websites!!! They also explain how to read the DTCs

Here are some very good sites that explain what DTC mean:

http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic11755.php

http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_cod...d-ii-codes.php

Make sure to include the H or C suffix when you post your DTCs!!

NOTE!!! Start the car and let it idle. Then take it for a drive and cause theproblem to occur. When you return home pull the codes BEFORE you shut off theengine.


Do NOT discount the codes with the H following them. They can provide an audittrail for issues going on with the car. They ARE important in diagnosingproblems.

Post ALL the codes that you pull with the engine running..........

Some codes go away WITHOUT setting an H code when you shut the engine off. Isuspect you will have several codes that will show C or HC that do NOT showwhen the engine is turned off.


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SviRjIsy9G4&list=PL7AcRmt53xvQVwDAGikaqYGw6ZivWB-2K

dadaroo, My steering wheel turns freely and does not lock when I remove the key. I replaced the ignition column lock a day or so ago, so I can't say if that helped matters yet or not. I'm taking my C-5 in for some repair today and I'll have him pull the codes with his Snap-on brand analyzer plus I'll have him check the battery. Thank you guys for your help even after my mis-understanding of gmjunkies signature.

 

[Antz81]

I found three ground wires right below the battery where the original battery had leaked it's acid years ago that need repair. Even with a thorough cleaning of that entire area it still has done some damage. I'll take care of that this weekend after I get my C-5 out of the shop today.

That certainly could be the cause of your low voltage problem.
just some advice my my experiences with acid on cables; if you you decide to cut and join the cables you will need to cut far enough back that you are getting good clean copper as the acid can migrate up the cable. If you don't do this then you find your problem comes back after a while. If you place the entire length then you avoid that risk completely.

 

[gmjunkie]

gmjunkie I found three ground wires right below the battery where the original battery had leaked it's acid years ago that need repair. Even with a thorough cleaning of that entire area it still has done some damage. I'll take care of that this weekend after I get my C-5 out of the shop today. It's in to have new bushings put at each end of the front transverse spring. I'll have my mechanic do a load check on the battery and check it's true voltage. Oh, and an answer to one of your previous questions, I changed the ignition cylinder lock yesterday. And yes I do hear what I believe is the column lock actuator. Thanks for your help.

Be sure and pull the codes All modules H&C before disconnecting the battery,otherwise it'll dump them and you won't be able to retrieve them!

 

[Lakotah]

codes

Be sure and pull the codes All modules H&C before disconnecting the battery,otherwise it'll dump them and you won't be able to retrieve them!

gmjunkie, as I dropped my C-5 off this morning I asked my mechanic to be sure and pull the codes just as you recommended. We'll see what's there. The last time he did this the only codes that were there were beyond 50 starts and my car had stalled numerous times since then. Hmmmmmm. Thank's.

 

[Lakotah]

low volts

That certainly could be the cause of your low voltage problem.
just some advice my my experiences with acid on cables; if you you decide to cut and join the cables you will need to cut far enough back that you are getting good clean copper as the acid can migrate up the cable. If you don't do this then you find your problem comes back after a while. If you place the entire length then you avoid that risk completely.

Antz81, Thanks for the heads up on that. That leaking battery happened years ago, so I'm sure it's been doing some damage up stream from the terminals.

 

[Lakotah]

Feel your pain

C5, C6 Corvette Skip Shift Eliminator - CAGS Defeat - 6-Speed : 1997-2013

Started a new post. . . . . . Actually found that info dealing with this that Toms007 posted and wanted to ask before I forgot, I too am on drugs, most of them prescribed by a doctor and retired last year so got plenty of time, well I guess I really don't know about the time!!! That may very well depend on the drugs, LOL

hoosierdaddy, I haven't worked for 14 years due to a work related injury, low back- leg pain 24-7

 

[Lakotah]

Lmc5

I think it may be related and could be the 2mph shutdown/limit. It is a place to start until we get his DIC codes. If he has not done a CL fix now is the time. If he needs a CL fix here is my opinion:



I consider the LMC5 to be the best Column Lock problempermanent fix out there. It also does not require you to “undo” any previous CLattempts to resolve this issue. Their eBay ads have a good video that shows theinstall at the BCM. It does not cover everything in the written instructions.So, read the instructions and also here is some extra info. In some cases, theBCM timing is off just enough to cause some issues. They make several versionsand they can swap out/provide one of these if you have any issues. Theircustomer support is as good as it gets.
Not uncommon for people to "put the column in a pre-lockcondition" and not know it and then start with the install. In otherwords, they started with the column lock “energized’ even if it was not actuallylocked yet. If not actually locked yet, it will be as soon as you turn thesteering wheel after the LMC5 install. It will then remain in the lockedcondition until you cause the motor to unlock. It will then remain in theunlocked condition since the motor is then unpowered with the circuitsdisconnected.
Here is one way to prevent that if your column locks andunlocks normally:
If the CL isfunctioning normally you don't not need the Unlocker, merely turn the ignitionON, pull fuse #23, turn ignition OFF, turn the steering wheel (left and right)and verify it is unlocked. Next, disconnect the negative battery terminal,re-insert fuse #23 and continue with the install.
Compliance Parts website:http://complianceparts.com/index.html

dadaroo, I have installed LMC5 about 3 weeks ago and I still have had stalling issues. Tomorrow I'm gonna take care of a potential bad ground just below the battery where years ago the original battery leaked it's acid. Also, even though today my mechanic checked and found only one code pertaining to the theft system because I had replaced the ignition lock cylinder a day or so ago and did not dis-connect the battery, I'll check again tomorrow to see if I can find any myself before I dis-connect the battery. Lets hope after cleaning and repairing the corroded ground wires I'll see some improvement.

 

[Toms007]

Found it, here are the links


Paul Koerner Seminar on C5 Column Lock Issues | VetteTube

Paul Koerner Seminar on Corvette C5 Colum Lock Issues Part 2 | VetteTube

I updated the links in the original thread......They work now. Thanks Otter for bringing that to my attention.

 

[dadaroo]

Lakotah, thanks for the updates. I am not sure what kind of scanner your mechanic has but the onboard DIC system will pull them ALL. Make sure we are not missing anything.

 

[dadaroo]

PS: Meant to ask when you installed the LMC5 did you disconnect the CL relay? It will remain powered if you don't. It can cause battery drain issues if it fails. If you need info on this it is in the LMC5 instructions. It is above the BCM and has these wires going to it.

5 wires that have the following colors: 1 white, 1 green, 1 purple and 2 orange.

 

[Lakotah]

Lmc5

PS: Meant to ask when you installed the LMC5 did you disconnect the CL relay? It will remain powered if you don't. It can cause battery drain issues if it fails. If you need info on this it is in the LMC5 instructions. It is above the BCM and has these wires going to it.

5 wires that have the following colors: 1 white, 1 green, 1 purple and 2 orange.

dadaroo, I didn't replace the LMC5 myself. My new mechanic did, so I can't say the CL relay was disconnected. I'm very confident he followed the instructions that came with the kit. I had him do a load test and check the true voltage on the battery yesterday. He told me the battery was fine. I really can't say that I notice any drain issues. Oh, my mechanic uses a Snap-on brand analyzer. I'll see what I can find using the DIC today using the instruction sheet you posted before I start the repair on the ground wire. Thanks a lot.

 

[Lakotah]

23 total DTC's

Be sure and pull the codes All modules H&C before disconnecting the battery,otherwise it'll dump them and you won't be able to retrieve them!

gmjunkie
Per yours and dadaroo's professional insight and recommendation I believe we found the source of my problem. That ground wire coming off the battery where it's connected to the frame had some definite scale built up under the terminal, making for a poor connection. Also a heads up from Ants81, the cable was corroded back up towards the battery. I replaced all the damaged area. Now key up voltage is 12, start up is 14.2, in gear it's 14.3 and it does not drop in voltage when it's put in gear like it used to. I found 23 DTC's. 11 were messages to the BCM, 5 were hi/lo voltage and 6 were open or short to ground. The other two, C1255H (EBTCM malfunction) and the last I couldn't find anything on it. It's B1001H. Hmmmmmm. One thing I find curious, unless I'm not understanding it (which is a great possibility), is I thought all the codes would dis-appear when the battery was dis-connected. Mine didn't. After I had retrieved all the codes I went ahead and reset all of them so now when and if I have a stalling problem I can immediately check the DIC.

Like you said gmjunkie, after reading what caused these DTC's, a lot of my problems will more than likely go away after fixing this grounding problem. Thank's

 

[Rob]

Awesome news!!