Smooth air "coupler" installed today and a question

[Rob]

SLUTS?!
Finally, a post about sluts!

I have a lot of respect for sluts because they are true amateurs in pursuit of sport....as opposed to prostitutes who are simply greedy capitalists.
Oh....this is really a thread about "airfoils"?

Don't waste your money. Those little fairings which go into the throttle body of an L98, LT1 or LT4 offer little performance enhancement to stock or near stock engines. Now...in an engine that's highly modified such that air flow thought he TB is greatly increased, they might make a difference. Of course, once you have the engine mod'ed to that point, you're going to go to a TB with larger bores rather than adding an "airfoil".

As for Rob's opinion that "aklim's" reply was smartass....well...with due respect to our Site Administrator, I disagree. The post was flippant, no doubt, but it also was accurate in its assessment of "airfoils" and a "SOTP dyno" . In fact, studies have shown that most drivers need to have 10% improvement in engine output before the results of a change can be felt in the "seat of the pants." While it is true that some perceptive drivers who test the same car often, might be capable of feeling 5%, even then, at a 300 hp baseline for a stock LT1, you'd have to see at least 15 horsepower difference for the most sensitive driver to "feel" the difference.

15 hp from a stock LT1 due to one of those "airfoils"?

Not.

Yes and no Hib. I stand by my previous post. The responses he received were uncalled for. If it's a shitty mod, then simply state the facts as to why it's not a good mod - without insulting the guy for choosing it.

We all learn somewhere, and the whole point behind this web site is learning, rather than getting bashed because you didn't know any better.

When we start losing members because they're getting bashed for not knowing any better - then I have a real big problem with that...

 

[XLR8]

I have to say to my fellow Staff members (and friends) Well Said!

The Corvette Action Center has always been about community, learning, sharing, debate... and FUN! Years ago, when I started looking for an online place to hang my Corvette hat up, prop up my feet, read and learn, relax and lower my guard, I did lots of lurking and searching on several Corvette sites. And the Corvette Action Center fit the bill! I liked the way newbies were treated, being welcomed into the group without reserve. The newly initiated were recognized as such and even when others disagreed with them, sarcasm, rudeness, one-up-manship and just plain bad manners were kept to a minimum... or not tolerated at all.

We won't always agree with each other and sometimes we'll downright disagree, but no one benefits from posts heavy on the sarcasm and light on pertinent information. And, trust me on this, no one is impressed by a person who makes themselves feel relevant and resourceful at the expense of others.

If you're not sure you can post your opinions without seeming rude, hateful or demeaning, step away from your keyboard until you can. We won't miss you. And if you can't self regulate, we'll be glad to help you.

Jane Ann
Corvette Action Center
Forums Administrator

 

[Hib Halverson]

Yes and no Hib. I stand by my previous post. The responses he received were uncalled for. If it's a shitty mod, then simply state the facts as to why it's not a good mod - without insulting the guy for choosing it.

We all learn somewhere, and the whole point behind this web site is learning, rather than getting bashed because you didn't know any better.

When we start losing members because they're getting bashed for not knowing any better - then I have a real big problem with that...

Easy there, Rob.
I'm sorry to hear the OP is now a guest, I was honest in my opinion about "airfoils" and was using some "fratboy humor" when talking about "sluts", but I never insulted "corvettedude95".

I think the whole thing was "tit-for-tat".

First there was:

Let me be the first to thank you for stimulating the economy with worthless purchases. It should run faster with a lighter wallet you carry.

The immediate reply was:

You're welcome and I don't carry a Wallet. As far as my purchase, maybe I will be as cool as you one day and can write all my mod's in my signature line?

Both were sort of flippant.

I'm sorry "Corvettedude95" didn't stick around, his point about long sig lines being just a way to brag was well-taken. Ya gotta like the guy for that.

 

[aklim]

his point about long sig lines being just a way to brag was well-taken. Ya gotta like the guy for that.

Some forums I am on, you can't get help without tacking your sig line in it so they know what you are working with. In fact, it has been requested "fill up your sig so we know what you are working with". People often come and say "I have a 2001 Ford Excursion and I am having trouble with X, Y or Z". What motor? Is it the V8, V10 or diesel? What have to you done to it?

So I ask, what is the way to get help here? Sig with mods or no sig? I'm comfortable with either way but is there an accepted practice? I thought the sig lines are for the benefit of the OP of the thread when others read it so they know what he has done and it might be a clue to what is going on. Obviously "I won 2nd place at the XYZ car show" isn't relevant to "My car died on the road and I see codes 1,2&3". Without seeing my sig, how would you know if I told you I have a Code 32 flashing at me?

Perhaps mods or no mods i the sig is a cultural thing where in some forums, it is demanded and others, not so.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I guess I'm just not big on sig lines.

If I had to put all the stuff done to my various cars in a sig line, I'd exceed my bandwidth limit.

I think the sig line stuff is unnecessary and is more a function of people's need to say, "Hey, look at me".

I think that, if in the process of answering or asking questions, one can simply put in the post the pertinent information.

Very seldom have I relied on what I read in sig lines when asking or answering questions on the CAC.

 

[aklim]

I think that, if in the process of answering or asking questions, one can simply put in the post the pertinent information.

I have seen it happen many time where someone says what they need with nobody knowing what they have or have done. Then the next question somebody asks is "What mods do you have? Fill out your sig so we know what we are working with."

I also see it as a GUIDE to how to achieve something which negates some of the question about what works. I personally would appreciate seeing on your sig what you have done to your C4s so if I want to build something similar, I have a REFERENCE point to begin with. Obviously, I can't make you responsible for it but it is a reference point to know what is realistic and what isn't.

 

[Yoda]

JMHO...

I never saw a signature tag line that answered any questions I've had, be my questions technical, general of specific to or about Corvettes, and most other subjects

About the only signature tag lines that catch my attention are the ASE Certified folks that are members here and choose to post their qualifications... All the mods from Window Stickers to Full Blown Engine Rebuild are ho hum to me. Maybe the member has lot's of $$$ and really doesn't even know the difference between hubcap and oil filter...

As you see I tend to ENJOY signature tag lines and photo's... AND should I need to know something it's not beneath me to ASK... I bet some folks even think I've asked a few DUMB Questions... go figure!!

Bud

 

[compyelc4]

I've read much testing on the airfoil and smooth coupler. Both really do nothing for performance. Opening up the air filter box does help some and you'll gain a little more with a high-flow air filter. Running a colder thermostat does squat and we can say the same for the throttle body hot water bypass trick too.

There are performance geniuses on this site. If you want to increase performance ask the pros here how to get the best bang for the buck. You will find that most fixes will involve some degree of engine teardown, including ported heads, low restriction exhaust (headers), etc. Be wise and don't get hooked by the advertising hype. You WILL lighten your wallet, but for the benefit of the economy.

Good luck in your quest. If you do a lot of reading of dyno test results after various mods you will learn much and go faster for less.

 

[aklim]

I've read much testing on the airfoil and smooth coupler. Both really do nothing for performance. Opening up the air filter box does help some and you'll gain a little more with a high-flow air filter. Running a colder thermostat does squat and we can say the same for the throttle body hot water bypass trick too.

There are performance geniuses on this site. If you want to increase performance ask the pros here how to get the best bang for the buck. You will find that most fixes will involve some degree of engine teardown, including ported heads, low restriction exhaust (headers), etc. Be wise and don't get hooked by the advertising hype. You WILL lighten your wallet, but for the benefit of the economy.

It MIGHT if the hose between the MAF and the TB is leaking and thus giving false values. Just a theory. I have seen my dyno results give me 20HP more with the removal of the filter as opposed to running the cold air intake for the Firebird but that was with several twists from the filter o the TB so it might have been a restriction. I think you are right about the thermostat. Not sure what the hot water bypass really does, HP wise but I removed it to eliminate something running thru the TB.

I am certainly not a genius by any stretch of the imagination but from what I have seen, speed costs. Cheap mods to gain power usually don't work. Maybe at the lower levels but you will run out of those very quickly from what I have seen. After that, it is going to take cubic dollars, in my experience which is limited. I generally go by "If it is too good to be true...."

 

[Rob]

The last member brought up good points. One of the things that a lot of people fail to realize is that when it comes to powertrains...GM does their homework. Why do you think companies like Lingenfelter and Callaway charge what they do? It's because it takes a lot more time, and materials to reliably extract additional power out what GM has already built. That's not to diss what other companies are doing however always remember...you get what you pay for. For those of us in the know...let's explain this to members that are not in the know rather than ridicule them for choices they made because they didn't know any better.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[John Robinson]

Missed the point

off and the rear coupler was warped/damaged. I guess the previous owner or someone didn't put it back on properly, so I assume the heat warped it. Any-who, I ordered one of these "smooth" rear air coupl



I think what the op was trying to say was that he found a problem he inherited from the previous owner. Even though he used a part that has generated a firestorm of negativity he does not make any claims about it. What he does say is that when he got the car back together with the inherited problem fixed it was an eye opener as to how well the car now ran.

I do hope that the op is still monitoring his post and will accept that sometimes things get out of hand. I have had it happen to me and I will admit I have probably been a party to it happening in the past. After all we are all human. Let none of us forget the joy of giving constructive help to others. On a personnel note to the op at 71 years of age I never fail to enjoy the exhilarating charge of wot and hope you will have many years of doing the same.

 

[6 Shooter]

Spot On - I hope the "op", CD95 becomes a CAC member again!

I do hope that the op is still monitoring his post and will accept that sometimes things get out of hand....

​

 

[Toms007]

It MIGHT if the hose between the MAF and the TB is leaking and thus giving false values. Just a theory. I have seen my dyno results give me 20HP more with the removal of the filter as opposed to running the cold air intake for the Firebird but that was with several twists from the filter o the TB so it might have been a restriction. I think you are right about the thermostat. Not sure what the hot water bypass really does, HP wise but I removed it to eliminate something running thru the TB.

I am certainly not a genius by any stretch of the imagination but from what I have seen, speed costs. Cheap mods to gain power usually don't work. Maybe at the lower levels but you will run out of those very quickly from what I have seen. After that, it is going to take cubic dollars, in my experience which is limited. I generally go by "If it is too good to be true...."

I've read much testing on the airfoil and smooth coupler. Both really do nothing for performance. Opening up the air filter box does help some and you'll gain a little more with a high-flow air filter. Running a colder thermostat does squat and we can say the same for the throttle body hot water bypass trick too.

There are performance geniuses on this site. If you want to increase performance ask the pros here how to get the best bang for the buck. You will find that most fixes will involve some degree of engine teardown, including ported heads, low restriction exhaust (headers), etc. Be wise and don't get hooked by the advertising hype. You WILL lighten your wallet, but for the benefit of the economy.

Good luck in your quest. If you do a lot of reading of dyno test results after various mods you will learn much and go faster for less.

I believe, that many people here are missing the point here.......That point being..... We can voice our opinions without being mean-spirited and running members off the site. That to me is the MAIN point here. Why is it some people seem to think that, that is acceptable in society today? Here at CAC, I believe that we have a code of conduct that should prevent that type of action. Yet there are some who, I guess, feel that they are above the rules. :ugh

I do hope that CorvetteDude95 does come back and that some others think about the methods of their posting in the future.

 

[1963SS]

Congratulations on your new airfoil and smooth coupler. If you need a few extra CFM then that is the way to go. Since the stock 48mm flows so well there isn't much need to go bigger until you're up to about 450 FWHP or so. GM Performance used the 48mm TB on the 502 making over 500 HP. It should work for many small blocks. The smooth coupler should aid also. It's a laminar flow thing. If being smooth didn't help there would be no need to grind flashing and casting marks out of intakes and heads. Here is a chart from a dis-interested third party that shows the actual airflow of some TB's and airfoils. All you naysayers....read it and weep. The proof's in the pudding. The airfoil adds about 50 CFM to the TB's. If you're at the upper limit of your throttle body and need a little more it's cheaper than going to a bigger TB.

Also remember that the stock MAF can only flow around 725 or so if it's de-screened. That is the limiting factor, not the throttle body itself. IMHO. ---Gunny---

The following airflow tests were performed on the University of Northwestern Ohio's SuperFlow SF600 Flow Bench. All CFM values are corrected for airflow at 28 inches of water. Injector flow rates are flowed at 43.5 PSI on an injector flow bench using test fluid with same density as gasoline.
​

Air-Flow
​

Throttle Bodies
​

• Stock TPI/LT1 48mm Throttle Body w/o airfoil -- 783.0 cfm
  ​
• Stock TPI/LT1 48mm Throttle Body w/ airfoil-- 821.9 cfm ​
• TPI/LT1 52mm Throttle Body w/o airfoil -- 848.9 cfm ​
• TPI/LT1 52mm Throttle Body w/ airfoil -- 898.8 cfm ​

 

[catbert]

The crow eating line forms at the left.

GREAT job on the flow numbers. It illustrates clearly that 1.) S.O.T.P. is sometimes a good gauge, and 2.) not everyone that opines loudly knows what the hell they are talking about.

 

[Corvettedude95]

OK now...

First and foremost, Thank you to the mods and those of you that have spoken up and been friendly and helpful. Considering my original intent was to get some help. Though no one has answered the question of "what is that wire?"


Another reason I posted about the smooth air coupler was to let some one know what an average joe thinks about it. I wasn't making claims that it was the best thing since sliced bread, I gave an opinion on a $39 product, that I quickly found (among what I stated) out made a little bit of difference in the response of my Corvette. I'm no engine expert, but my opinion was just that...an opinion. When my car started smoother, responded better and "felt" like it performed better, that's WHAT I wanted others to know; the average joe. I know the big time guys know that the dyno may not show it has any affect on the performance of the car. BUT, I don't have a dyno handy, nor is there one close to me. I will NEVER get on here and lie about a product, that gets no one anywhere and gets no good information passed.

I sent Rob a message and with his kind words, I felt it was necessary for me to come back. At least to explain why I left; if anyone cares (Rob and a few others did).

OK, one of the reasons I took a brief hiatus was and to be perfectly honest, my "little feelings" were hurt and the second, I didn't want to start an internet "fight" over who's ##### was the biggest. Or this case...Wallet. Me being an unemployed disabled Veteran...I'm sure that would be me losing the Wallet weigh-in.

I was "warned" not to join a CORVETTE site, because of the "I'm better than you because I have a better Corvette" attitude by some people. I wanted to learn about the Corvette, get some obvious inside knowledge and "meet" some fellow Corvette owners. Instead, I get a smart ass comment by someone that (almost) right off the bat, acts just like the person that I was warned about. After talking to Rob and doing some thinking, I should have known better than to think that the general population of Vette owners were pompous asses. After my first response I felt I was done with the comebacks. I also didn't think it would be fair, for others that may want to learn something about the air foil and coupler, to sit and read two dudes throwing 8th grade remarks back and forth.

6 Shooter.

Now, for something on a lighter note (I hope). I did put the air foil I mentioned about buying on/in. In my haste to get it in, I stripped the threads on the bolt. I called mamamotorks (Friday) and asked if I could buy another bolt; I looked at the hardware store here, no luck. The lady said that she would ask the warehouse on Monday and by Thursday, I had a whole new Air Foil. I thought that was very cool of them to do that and I guess they will continue to get my business. (I've bought other items from them since buying my Corvette). Now, I'll spare you with the SOTP dyno results.

So, with that, please except my apologies for not sticking around. Again, thanks for the support, the flow charts and the advice on what to buy and what not to buy.

6 Shooter.

@Gunny...SEMPER FI!!!!

to the rest of you guys.

Now, as far as asking the experts, well, I don't know who the exact experts are. Is there a list? That's not a sarcastic question, just an honest question.

I know that to get BIG HP gains, I will need to dig into that engine. Heads, Cam/lifters, Crank, etc etc. I was trying a few items that I thought to myself, "why not, it's not going to break me" and I read nowhere where it stated these items have caused catastrophic failure to anyones car. If I had, you can bet your Corvette, that I would not have spent on dime on it.

I hope to meet some of you guys/gals in my beautiful home state of Kentucky sometime at one of the events in Bowling Green. I was born and bred a few miles away in Louisville.

 

[John Robinson]

Let me be the first to say

I by no means am an expert on the Corvette. But I will be more than willing to share what I have learned when I think it will be of help. Most of my experience with mine has been wiring and sensor related with an excursion into the u joints, intake manifold leak, brakes, cruise control, and fuel system, window mechanism. I for one go to GMJunkie for the real knowledge on my car he is the best.

I have been on fixed income since I retired in 1992 and so like you I have to do the work on my car or it would just be sitting in a garage. And I fully understand about not spending money I don't have or need for other things. But the call from the garage when my baby is hurting has allowed me to find fixes that might not be what the dealer would do or those who are still employed but they work.

As for modifications to my car well I have come to appreciate that for daily driving the exhaust is big enough (took resonator out) The performance is were I need it light to light. When in my youth I sought more performance in my cars I came to realize that what I needed was more low end torque not high end performance. Making the engine rev higher only puts most of what you have gained at the upper end of the rev range beyond the range of prudent or legal driving.

 

[6 Shooter]

CD95 - Welcome Back!

​

 

[muddywaters]

Glad too see your back CD95. I'm an Old Dog also and know what to expect when it comes to lads and their cars. As far as the Air-Foil goes I put one in my 88 and noticed a diifferent exhaust note at idle, smoother acceleration and all around better performance, did it make it the fastest car on the street, no. I worked in HVAC for 15 years and understand air flow and what it means to clean it up, turbulent flow vs laminar flow. Again glad to see your back. You did the right thing.

 

[catbert]

Welcome back. Take what you hear on this forum, and all the others, for what it is - the opinions of people who, may, or may not, know what the hell they are talking about. Right, or wrong, we love them all, but take everything with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.