C7BOB
Active member
The only other choice is a Buick/Cadillac/GMC dealer. Or are you suggesting they sell them at Ford, MB, BMW, etc. dealers?
With Viper splitting from Dodge, should Corvette have separated from Chevy?
- Thread starter Rob
- Start date
The only other choice is a Buick/Cadillac/GMC dealer. Or are you suggesting they sell them at Ford, MB, BMW, etc. dealers?
Ultra Slow
Well-known member
Seperate Corvette from Chevrolet?
It is an interesting consideration but think of this; The Corvette was really kind of separated from Chevrolet with the Cadillac XLR. Although it is not exactly the same car, the XLR-V series is really a higher end and very high performing 2 seat roadster built right at Bowling Green on the very Corvette platform we hold so dear to heart. The best aspect of owning an XLR over a Corvette was the service/dealership relations. You were not in the same dealership as the more common mark Chevrolet, and your XLR was not being serviced next to a 200K mile beat to death Malibu with dog hair and baby formula oozing out the doors. The bad side is the stigma. High end stigma really has baffled me for years when performance is concerned and resale value. Corvette buyers always seem to buy their cars on HP Marks and 1/4 mile performance... still today. Even though the average corvette buyer would never, and may never be capable of pushing their car to the limit... they seem to go off of that as a major factor in their choice of cars. There are plenty of other fast 2 seat cars on the market but Corvette itself has always held its own league... and its not because it is the fastest... it is because it is a regular old chevy and it is competing with cars that have names "considered" 10X better by those that push paper to the reading public.
Corvette, for years, has held a very good resale value, and to me that is a very good reason to own a car. Unfortunately it is declining hard year after year though and putting the car in its own “Mark” I think will just accelerate that decline. If the buyers are satisfied that the general entry price of a corvette is, lets say 60K… and in 3 years its another 20K car… then fine… Go lose your 40K… but for me, I would like to hang on to as much of that original cost as possible. One of the things that is nice in owning a Corvette vs say a Mercedes SL is the fact you will not lose 100K in 3-4 years. Mercedes is a bloodbath… High end car resale is really a crime… and people seem to have let many mfrs literally get away with robbery by the acceptance of this and constant trade up to the next model with no return on the past.
This is what scares me for the Corvette, and we get a small glimpse of this with the XLR. For whatever reason, not many people gave the XLR-V (built on the Corvette Platform) much consideration as it was not marketed as just an all out brute. Even though it was plenty capable, it was just another old man’s car.. Like a Mercedes SL65, even though it would dust the pants off the regular corvette, it was not a Corvette. And as a result, the resale on those Cadillac XLRs are really extremely poor, kind of making it an interesting car to purchase used, but it seems to have a bottomless value that will approach the price of a worn out Camry here soon for a very nice car.
I will say that a lot of that poor resale does come from service woes when out of warranty. Although much of the same car as a corvette, the XLR is serviced at the Cadillac dealer. A palace with marble floors, moccha chino machines, pretty girl service writers, and more. It cost a whole lot more to keep those people in high cotton vs a more humble Chevy dealer…. And I think a lot of the car’s value is lost in that over time. Mecedes is the worst... And look at the palace of dealerships they have.... Seems to be a direct pattern on a car's resale.
From that aspect, I would say that Dodge taking the Viper Mark away is not a good thing nor is Chevrolet. Both cars became famous from their blue collar backgrounds and humble beginnings. The Viper is the blue collar performance car of the past decade and rightfully so it should be. It is bold, it is brute, it was over the top. Now they tamed it down with the newer gen… and guess what….. the resale is not as good now as those famous 96-02s…… The Corvette, although has graduated up in its audience age quite high over the years, still holds a lot of that blue collar mentality with it too. Take that away and give it a more hoidy toidiy image as was done with the XLR, which is done with the Mercedes SL and many other very capable performing cars, you have just another one of those that are bottomless pits to a waste of cash to the owners. Right now both the Dodge Viper and the Chevrolet Corvette have that common man stigma and are service by more of a common man’s facility and network... and if/when that status echelon is taken to a higher ground... I think you will lose both cars all together as just another one of the many rich dummy cars on the market.<o
></o>
Keep in mind I am looking at this from a consumers stand point, not the mfrs. My standpoint is if I do go buy a very expensive new car as a toy, viper, corvette, etc (and these are all toy cars)… when I get tired of my toy and/or want to play that game of keeping up with the techo-jones’ to get the latest model, I will get as much of my original price investment back as possible on my older one. I may be one of the rare breeds that cares anymore.. as the proof in the high end car market says it does not matter…. Just spend and lose hard… it’s the way of the world and you should join in..... Well I am going to resist.
If the Corvette Mark is separated from Chevrolet, I think you will see how far down that resale market will go… It won’t be pretty.
<!--StartFragment --> Matt Garrett - 214-878-3823
http://www.GM-Classics.com
It is an interesting consideration but think of this; The Corvette was really kind of separated from Chevrolet with the Cadillac XLR. Although it is not exactly the same car, the XLR-V series is really a higher end and very high performing 2 seat roadster built right at Bowling Green on the very Corvette platform we hold so dear to heart. The best aspect of owning an XLR over a Corvette was the service/dealership relations. You were not in the same dealership as the more common mark Chevrolet, and your XLR was not being serviced next to a 200K mile beat to death Malibu with dog hair and baby formula oozing out the doors. The bad side is the stigma. High end stigma really has baffled me for years when performance is concerned and resale value. Corvette buyers always seem to buy their cars on HP Marks and 1/4 mile performance... still today. Even though the average corvette buyer would never, and may never be capable of pushing their car to the limit... they seem to go off of that as a major factor in their choice of cars. There are plenty of other fast 2 seat cars on the market but Corvette itself has always held its own league... and its not because it is the fastest... it is because it is a regular old chevy and it is competing with cars that have names "considered" 10X better by those that push paper to the reading public.
Corvette, for years, has held a very good resale value, and to me that is a very good reason to own a car. Unfortunately it is declining hard year after year though and putting the car in its own “Mark” I think will just accelerate that decline. If the buyers are satisfied that the general entry price of a corvette is, lets say 60K… and in 3 years its another 20K car… then fine… Go lose your 40K… but for me, I would like to hang on to as much of that original cost as possible. One of the things that is nice in owning a Corvette vs say a Mercedes SL is the fact you will not lose 100K in 3-4 years. Mercedes is a bloodbath… High end car resale is really a crime… and people seem to have let many mfrs literally get away with robbery by the acceptance of this and constant trade up to the next model with no return on the past.
This is what scares me for the Corvette, and we get a small glimpse of this with the XLR. For whatever reason, not many people gave the XLR-V (built on the Corvette Platform) much consideration as it was not marketed as just an all out brute. Even though it was plenty capable, it was just another old man’s car.. Like a Mercedes SL65, even though it would dust the pants off the regular corvette, it was not a Corvette. And as a result, the resale on those Cadillac XLRs are really extremely poor, kind of making it an interesting car to purchase used, but it seems to have a bottomless value that will approach the price of a worn out Camry here soon for a very nice car.
I will say that a lot of that poor resale does come from service woes when out of warranty. Although much of the same car as a corvette, the XLR is serviced at the Cadillac dealer. A palace with marble floors, moccha chino machines, pretty girl service writers, and more. It cost a whole lot more to keep those people in high cotton vs a more humble Chevy dealer…. And I think a lot of the car’s value is lost in that over time. Mecedes is the worst... And look at the palace of dealerships they have.... Seems to be a direct pattern on a car's resale.
From that aspect, I would say that Dodge taking the Viper Mark away is not a good thing nor is Chevrolet. Both cars became famous from their blue collar backgrounds and humble beginnings. The Viper is the blue collar performance car of the past decade and rightfully so it should be. It is bold, it is brute, it was over the top. Now they tamed it down with the newer gen… and guess what….. the resale is not as good now as those famous 96-02s…… The Corvette, although has graduated up in its audience age quite high over the years, still holds a lot of that blue collar mentality with it too. Take that away and give it a more hoidy toidiy image as was done with the XLR, which is done with the Mercedes SL and many other very capable performing cars, you have just another one of those that are bottomless pits to a waste of cash to the owners. Right now both the Dodge Viper and the Chevrolet Corvette have that common man stigma and are service by more of a common man’s facility and network... and if/when that status echelon is taken to a higher ground... I think you will lose both cars all together as just another one of the many rich dummy cars on the market.<o
></o>Keep in mind I am looking at this from a consumers stand point, not the mfrs. My standpoint is if I do go buy a very expensive new car as a toy, viper, corvette, etc (and these are all toy cars)… when I get tired of my toy and/or want to play that game of keeping up with the techo-jones’ to get the latest model, I will get as much of my original price investment back as possible on my older one. I may be one of the rare breeds that cares anymore.. as the proof in the high end car market says it does not matter…. Just spend and lose hard… it’s the way of the world and you should join in..... Well I am going to resist.
If the Corvette Mark is separated from Chevrolet, I think you will see how far down that resale market will go… It won’t be pretty.
<!--StartFragment --> Matt Garrett - 214-878-3823
http://www.GM-Classics.com
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #23
UltraSlow,
Good response, however I have to disagree to some point with your statement about the demise of the XLR.
In my opinion, the Cadillac XLR died because GM failed at exerting any appreciable amount of marketing it.
The XLR was, for all intents and purposes, Cadillac's halo image car; just as the Corvette is for Chevrolet. The XLR had SO much potential; if it was marketed properly and the platform was nurtured.
Now, the high performance Cadillac's are the V-Series. In the last several years, you couldn't open a Car and Driver, Motor Trend or Road and Track magazine without seeing a full page ad with an awesome looking V-Series Cadillac on it. Although sales of the V-series Cadillac's are nothing to write home about, the V-Series have acquired a lot of popularity and respect within the automotive world. Recent reviews over the last 2-3 years have been excellent.
I wish GM would have exerted the amount of energy and money into marketing the XLR as they have with the V-Series Cadillac CTS. Sharing the Corvette's frame and chassis components, I can't help but wonder where the XLR could have gone if GM would have nurtured it along and improved upon the formula.
Good response, however I have to disagree to some point with your statement about the demise of the XLR.
In my opinion, the Cadillac XLR died because GM failed at exerting any appreciable amount of marketing it.
The XLR was, for all intents and purposes, Cadillac's halo image car; just as the Corvette is for Chevrolet. The XLR had SO much potential; if it was marketed properly and the platform was nurtured.
Now, the high performance Cadillac's are the V-Series. In the last several years, you couldn't open a Car and Driver, Motor Trend or Road and Track magazine without seeing a full page ad with an awesome looking V-Series Cadillac on it. Although sales of the V-series Cadillac's are nothing to write home about, the V-Series have acquired a lot of popularity and respect within the automotive world. Recent reviews over the last 2-3 years have been excellent.
I wish GM would have exerted the amount of energy and money into marketing the XLR as they have with the V-Series Cadillac CTS. Sharing the Corvette's frame and chassis components, I can't help but wonder where the XLR could have gone if GM would have nurtured it along and improved upon the formula.
M
Movinginstereo
Guest
???
What?
Have we run out of intelligent questions to ponder? What kind of a moron thought this one up?
How about before any more Einsteins are allowed access to posting questions, we actually come up with reasonable questions to find answers for.
Chevrolet originated "America's Sportscar" clear back in the 50's and has continued straight through the last almost 60 years. Corvettes are Chevrolets. If you can't or don't understand that...then congratulations! You really need to stick to pool cleaning. (and fords.)
What?
Have we run out of intelligent questions to ponder? What kind of a moron thought this one up?
How about before any more Einsteins are allowed access to posting questions, we actually come up with reasonable questions to find answers for.
Chevrolet originated "America's Sportscar" clear back in the 50's and has continued straight through the last almost 60 years. Corvettes are Chevrolets. If you can't or don't understand that...then congratulations! You really need to stick to pool cleaning. (and fords.)
ncdino
New member
Red-headed stepchild.....
This concept is equivalent to disowning one of your children. Correct me if I am wrong but the Corvette was the very first true American sportscar and almost 60 years later still commands respect from around the world. Any person considering buying one of these awesome vehicles will do considerable research and will most likely have his or her mind made before approaching the dealership because of the mere investment to own one of these cars. It is my opinion that the salespersons input has little to do with the decision making process. As for the service, if we are not satisfied then we go up the ladder and complain until we are satisfied. There are established Chevrolet dealerships already in place all over the country where we can go now and buy parts for these cars. Separating Corvette from Chevrolt will severely limit our access to repair and maintenance parts, Driving 200+ miles to the nearest dealer for and A/C hose would not be acceptable to many owners and would certainly hurt the Corvette reputation in the long run. Just my 2 cents worth.......
Chevrolet Corvette Forever!
This concept is equivalent to disowning one of your children. Correct me if I am wrong but the Corvette was the very first true American sportscar and almost 60 years later still commands respect from around the world. Any person considering buying one of these awesome vehicles will do considerable research and will most likely have his or her mind made before approaching the dealership because of the mere investment to own one of these cars. It is my opinion that the salespersons input has little to do with the decision making process. As for the service, if we are not satisfied then we go up the ladder and complain until we are satisfied. There are established Chevrolet dealerships already in place all over the country where we can go now and buy parts for these cars. Separating Corvette from Chevrolt will severely limit our access to repair and maintenance parts, Driving 200+ miles to the nearest dealer for and A/C hose would not be acceptable to many owners and would certainly hurt the Corvette reputation in the long run. Just my 2 cents worth.......
Chevrolet Corvette Forever!
M
MikeLT4
Guest
I am voting with my heart, because as a purely business matter it may not make sense, but it made no sense when OBummer took over GM and screwed preferred stock and bond holders out of their equity. It makes it difficult to be a GM guy. I recently bought a Ford Escape as my business vechicle simply because it is a stockholder owned company with no govt. equity. Besides, any company that thinks the Volt is the car of the future does not deserve my business.
I still love my 96 LT4 CE, but would not consider a new Vette until the company is free of govt interference.
I still love my 96 LT4 CE, but would not consider a new Vette until the company is free of govt interference.
Terry Quinn
Member
Viper is a kit car, Corvette is a production car
Viper fans would argue with my title, but in a good year, about 3,000 vipers are made, in a bad year, less than 1,000.
Corvettes run from about 20,000 to 40,000 per year, since 1963.
I think Fiat took the Viper off the books because they probably couldn't figure out how to manage it in its production and supply chain systems. Maybe there are other reasons also.
No good reason to separate Corvette from Chevy. If they are having trouble with some dealers, it could be distributed to only the dealers that sell more.
Viper fans would argue with my title, but in a good year, about 3,000 vipers are made, in a bad year, less than 1,000.
Corvettes run from about 20,000 to 40,000 per year, since 1963.
I think Fiat took the Viper off the books because they probably couldn't figure out how to manage it in its production and supply chain systems. Maybe there are other reasons also.
No good reason to separate Corvette from Chevy. If they are having trouble with some dealers, it could be distributed to only the dealers that sell more.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #28
Oh come on....don't hold back now!
Bolisk
Well-known member
I have a split view on this. I don't think they should split corvette from Chevy, as that is silly for the purests, and the Chevy brand. But I do agree with the old European complaint, that the corvette should not have any GM or Chevy branding or text anywhere on the car. You can make corvette an exclusive brand under the ownership of Chevy and GM. There was a complaint at one point, don't remember when, that some Europeans did like it when they started the car and it said "corvette by Chevy" ( or something to that effect ) on the dash. The counter argument at the time was that a Ferrari didn't say "Ferrari by fiat" on the dash ( don't remember if Ferrari was ever owned by fiat, but you get my point). I think corvette should be an exclusive brand inside of chevy, and not have any branding on the end product.
M
mikep3
Guest
I love my Corvette, it's a Chevy!
Silver Blue 58
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- 1958 Silver Blue 2004 Z-06 Machine Silver
When I heard of this plan being floated in 2003 or so I spoke to Pete Gerosa (then V.P. N.A. Sales and Service) about the disconnect this would have for Corvette and the impact it would have on Chevy dealers like myself. The plan that was being considered was that of a "Premium Brand" dealership that would handle Hummer, Corvette, Cadillac. It was not well thought out. GM can not just "select" dealers of their choosing and kick others to the curb. All dealers have an agreement with GM (Sales and Service Agreement) that is a contract for a specified time period. It is difficult to terminate a dealership if there is not evidence of a breach of the Agreement (sales or service performance, poor Customer Satisfaction Index, fraud etc) and in our state (NC) the state laws protect this (selective targeting of dealers for reasons not regarding performance) from happening as it protects the dealer and his/her rights specifically.
So from a dealers perpective in order for me to attain allocation I have to have trained folks working in the dealership. (Both Sales and Service) We do not sell but 12 to 20 Corvettes during any given year. I have three certified GM Corvette technicians, I support two area Corvette Clubs (over 40 members in each) and at any given time during a week, I will have two or three Corvettes in for service. Am I one of the dealers that you want to kick to the curb?
What I can tell you is that we are also a Cadillac dealership and we were also heavily involved with XLR owners. We did everything imaginable to support that product. Group trips to Bowling Green, supported an XLR club and had my trained sales and service folks to support the Cadillac Product. As predictable GM is with new products, out of the chute XLR had issues (just like the Allante) and just when all the product issues got ironed out GM drops the XLR (just like the Allante).
Now I know that Cadillac was phasing out the Northstar, but why couldn't a very nice and capable car have been kept alive?
Well when XLR owners want to get a new luxury sports car now, guess what product they turn to? You guessed it .....a Corvette.
I have to say that the idea to peel Corvette away from Chevy is not a good idea. In the long run it will add to the current dealer turmoil and destroy the Chevrolet brand. Remember, Corvette is our "Halo" car designed to create excitement and get folks into the Chevy showrooms.
Just my view and another perspective.
R
routesixtysix
Guest
Keep Corvette GM
I agree 100%. Also, I don't care that much about the sales department, but I do want the service department to know a whole lot about my Corvette. This hasn't been my experience to date.
I have been buying them since 1971 and the fact that I know more about the car than the person selling them to me, has never lead to a negative experience or outcome.
The Corvette is not the Viper and GM is not Fiat/Chrysler. The benefits that GM acquires from the engineering and brand awareness is enormous. Corvette benefits from the engineering, manufacturing and distribution of GM. I would predict a 100% price increase within a few years of the breakup. If that were to occur the sales numbers would enter into an unrecoverable tail spin and Corvette as we know it would be a smokin' hole. GM appears to be make some good decisions for now so I'm of the opinion that if it isn't broke........don't fix it!
I agree 100%. Also, I don't care that much about the sales department, but I do want the service department to know a whole lot about my Corvette. This hasn't been my experience to date.
DallasC5
New member
Where does it end? Never!
It seems this article has really hit home with a lot of us in the corvette world, which by the way, I've only been a member of for about 4 years now. However, I have followed Corvette for many years waiting for the opportunity to actually own "The American Muscle Car". At this point in my life, I can honestly say, I don't believe I care to own another sports car unless it is a vette. I suppose there are many of us out there that have heard about and studied the heritage preceeding today's generation of vettes, but being a business owner myself, I know that heritage probably isn't going to be the deciding factor in this decision for Chevy. Some may fear that it will all come to an end eventually, but I say never!
Chevy has made a lot of money with the Corvette line of cars over the past few years and it doesn't take a lot of effort to figure that one out. Just take your based price vette and compare that to the volume of cars they have produced and you'll begin to see how that one little manufacturing plant in Bowling Green, KY has survived over the years. Couple that with the fact that this new generation of vette is probably the all time best production sports car to date, you should realize that Corvette is hear to stay with or without GM. I would have to say the heritage will follow it where ever it goes also.
I've own numerous sports cars in my life time and one thing has always stood out among the pack and that's the vette. Not matter which generation, no matter the price tag, it has always seemed that Vette owned the road. That is if you were a true sports car fan. I'm talking about those individuals that actually drive their cars. Not those that choose to keep it in the garage and shine it from time to time or pull it out for the neighbors to see. Nor those that are worrying about the value declining because of the milage. If you truly like to drive, you know that vette is king and whether that remains apart of Chevy or not, isn't really going to matter as long as the driving experience remains. I suppose that aspect remains in the hands of the engineers lucky enough to take on the responsibility of designing them. Let's keep our fingers crossed!!!
GM, do what you gotta do my friend. We all know it's dollars and cents these days. Just make sure Corvette remains on the road in the American hands. It's not CEO's and hollywood stars that have kept that plant producing. It's those of us that like to burn up the road and lead the pack while we're doing it!
It seems this article has really hit home with a lot of us in the corvette world, which by the way, I've only been a member of for about 4 years now. However, I have followed Corvette for many years waiting for the opportunity to actually own "The American Muscle Car". At this point in my life, I can honestly say, I don't believe I care to own another sports car unless it is a vette. I suppose there are many of us out there that have heard about and studied the heritage preceeding today's generation of vettes, but being a business owner myself, I know that heritage probably isn't going to be the deciding factor in this decision for Chevy. Some may fear that it will all come to an end eventually, but I say never!
Chevy has made a lot of money with the Corvette line of cars over the past few years and it doesn't take a lot of effort to figure that one out. Just take your based price vette and compare that to the volume of cars they have produced and you'll begin to see how that one little manufacturing plant in Bowling Green, KY has survived over the years. Couple that with the fact that this new generation of vette is probably the all time best production sports car to date, you should realize that Corvette is hear to stay with or without GM. I would have to say the heritage will follow it where ever it goes also.
I've own numerous sports cars in my life time and one thing has always stood out among the pack and that's the vette. Not matter which generation, no matter the price tag, it has always seemed that Vette owned the road. That is if you were a true sports car fan. I'm talking about those individuals that actually drive their cars. Not those that choose to keep it in the garage and shine it from time to time or pull it out for the neighbors to see. Nor those that are worrying about the value declining because of the milage. If you truly like to drive, you know that vette is king and whether that remains apart of Chevy or not, isn't really going to matter as long as the driving experience remains. I suppose that aspect remains in the hands of the engineers lucky enough to take on the responsibility of designing them. Let's keep our fingers crossed!!!
GM, do what you gotta do my friend. We all know it's dollars and cents these days. Just make sure Corvette remains on the road in the American hands. It's not CEO's and hollywood stars that have kept that plant producing. It's those of us that like to burn up the road and lead the pack while we're doing it!
hub_cap
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I agree, I want a bow-tie on my Corvettes.
tripower
New member
1953 corvette pure american history
With Corvette being a pure american historical automobile it would be detrimental to the history of this iconic classical true AMERICAN SPORTS CAR ,so LEAVE IT BE to carry on it's legacy. I don't see Viper ever being as historically connected to it's manufacture ,Fiat-Chrysler,as Corvette is to GM.Viper is better off to cut ties to Fiat-Chrysler to rebuild it's own history.What Dealer could only market just one car exclusively? It would still have to be sold at a GM brand store or on line so, why not leave it a Chevrolet?:confused
With Corvette being a pure american historical automobile it would be detrimental to the history of this iconic classical true AMERICAN SPORTS CAR ,so LEAVE IT BE to carry on it's legacy. I don't see Viper ever being as historically connected to it's manufacture ,Fiat-Chrysler,as Corvette is to GM.Viper is better off to cut ties to Fiat-Chrysler to rebuild it's own history.What Dealer could only market just one car exclusively? It would still have to be sold at a GM brand store or on line so, why not leave it a Chevrolet?:confused
tripower
New member
exactly
hub_cap
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You know, I have never minded knowing more about the car I'm going to purchase than anyone at a Stealership. That way, they can't blow smoke at me. The only reason I deal with them, is I can't purchase a new one any other way of which I'm aware.
autopat
Member
Just because Dodge is making a big mistake, doesn't mean Chevy should follow suit. You don't want an American icon to lose it's heritage, and it's identity, and that's what Dodge is doing by pushing the Viper out into the cold.
Pat
Pat
rch105
Well-known member
Corvette and Viper
Coming from a family that has one of each, I find that each in it's own right have their merits, their issues, their individualism. I am not here to pick either one apart...they both represent American Muscle.
I say this, Dodge was foolish for doing what they did...and with hope Chevy will not follow in their footsteps.
As to the remark someone made about production...for every 150 Vettes I pass, I pass one Viper. Quality is not always graded on quanity...each are a blast to drive...the Vette...more refinement...the Viper...raw power.
Coming from a family that has one of each, I find that each in it's own right have their merits, their issues, their individualism. I am not here to pick either one apart...they both represent American Muscle.
I say this, Dodge was foolish for doing what they did...and with hope Chevy will not follow in their footsteps.
As to the remark someone made about production...for every 150 Vettes I pass, I pass one Viper. Quality is not always graded on quanity...each are a blast to drive...the Vette...more refinement...the Viper...raw power.
Z06Marty
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Chevrolet is doing a great job
The corvette gets better and better. I'm proud of Chevrolet.
The corvette gets better and better. I'm proud of Chevrolet.
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