With Viper splitting from Dodge, should Corvette have separated from Chevy?

[Remo]

Hmmm

Let's imagine that GM does another cost benefit analysis and puts
the Corvette division out for sale. Let's further imagine that someone
like Nissan Motors makes the purchase. Now imagine this nightmare.

THE ALL NEW 2015 NISSAN CORVETTE

 

[i10fwy]

Times have changed, Our family was in the business from the beginning (Gramp's started with Buick in 1928) When I grew up in the business in the 60's through the 80's our sales people had worked there their whole life and knew their product inside and out. As one of the top Corvette dealers in the country and one of the original Callaway dealers we knew out shit!

The stores today have 300% turnover in salespeople who make $20?k a year. And due to the price of a new Vette the demographic has increased drasticly, Young people are really out of the picture unfortunately. Back in the day the average Joe could afford one. Heck at 50+ I can hadly afford one. When I was 20 I sold a lot of vette's and owned a new one! How many 20 year olds do you see driving a new Vette?

i10fwy

 

[SpeedE55]

This subject is so moronic isn't even worth discussing.

 

[Tuna]

I lean toward Corvette being its own brand and sold by selected GM dealers that fit certain requirements for Corvette sales - whether that be a Cadillac dealer, a Buick dealer or a Chevy dealer.

Chevrolet has a very different brand identity from the Corvette and vice versa.

Too many sales people in Chevrolet dealerships have little or no knowledge of the Vette and the service people can be just as clueless. I can't say that putting the Corvette at a Cadillac or Buick dealership would be any better but Cadillic people are more accustomed to dealing with people that buy $60-$100K cars and how to treat them.

When I bought my very first Corvette, a new 1992 in late 1991, I used the Buick dealership instead of the Chevrolet dealership because they gave me a better deal and were happy to work with me and I didn't like they way the Chevrolet sales people treated me. GM will not let that happen now.

That's my 2 cents and it probably ain't worth that to most.

 

[stevbullock]

Don't Split Off

At the highest level, just look at the numbers: How many Vipers are on the road and how many Corvettes? You can run the assembly plant for Vipers in my garage. Corvette needs the Chevy backing and support. It's been good for 50 years and is just getting better, even if it took a bail out.

Concerning sales and service, I agree with others, that if the dealership sells a product they should devote the people power to appropriate training. Often they don't. Where I live there is one expert on Corvette at the dealership. There are several independents who have better prices (30 - 50%) and do great work. Use your head, take your choice.

 

[i10fwy]

I think Corvette could be a viable franchise on its own with only the most dedicated, best trained in both sales & service. Think of all the small dealers that may not even sell one a year, are they doing the nameplate any good? So you take a market the size of Phx. Would it work if there were say, 4 Corvette/Chevrolet dealers. Better selection, better service. The days would be over going to a dealer and they only have a couple in inventory. Now they would have 20 to 30. A full accessory and corvette parts department. No more going to Mid-America and the like for all the neat things for your new car. I think I like the concept if properly done.

i10fwy :L

 

[B747VET]

Answering this question intellllligently requires one thing. A complete read of "All Corvettes are RED" The internal power struggles at GM are a nightmare for creative engineering. Vote after you know something.

I know a couple of the biggest names in Corvette racing over the last 40 years. They have fought the battles you mention with GM & Chevrolet MBA's face to face on many occasions. None of them has ever uttered a word in favor of splitting Corvette from Chevrolet or GM. They are some of the unsung heroes who have helped the Corvette over some big internal GM political and financial hurdles.

But, they also know that it sometimes takes hugely deep pockets to push technology to the next level where no one has been before. If it works ... great .... but if that leap was in the wrong direction ... as has happened in the past ... a relatively small standalone operation will sooner or later not be able to recover from such an error.

Yeah, GM & Chevrolet have at times done tremendously stupid things with respect to the Corvette, but they have also enabled huge leaps in technology that no banker would have ever supported if an isolated company like "Corvette Motors" had sought funding.

And, yes, Chevy dealerships are rarely fountains of knowledge with respect to Corvettes. In the long run, dealerships don't really matter all that much when it comes to a specialty car like the Corvette. Poor dealerships can be tolerated if the product and the technology are superior.

Bottomline, GM is a giant political nightmare and the Corvette is an anomally. Without a specific big brother Division like Chevrolet to fight those political battles on behalf of the Corvette, the Corvette could never have survived all these years. Chevrolet has a piece of the action and fights for R&D on the Corvette line. And, in case anyone is confused, there have been many times when Corvette has been a financial drain and there have also been a number of times where certain Corvettes have been subsidized big time.

I bought my brand new 1994 ZR-1 for $54,000 just 60 days after they were pulling an average of $84,000 for every ZR1 they sold. When the ZF assembly line crashed for 70 days the ZR-1 world crumbled. Anyone really believe that an independent Corvette operation could have breezed through that kind of financial and plummeting sales crisis after developing a super engine with very limited marketability like the LT5 ZR1? Anyone really believe that ZR1 would have ever seen the light of day in an independent Corvette operation? Anyone really believe the current ZO6's and ZR1's would somehow have clawed their way out of the morass of a bankrupt GM without the clout of the Chevrolet division?

Anyone who knows corporate politics and understands true street smarts knows that Chevrolet is the division that pushed through Corvette technologies during bankruptcy and pushed the wisdom of allowing a synergistic relationship with the Cadillac CTS vehicles and now the Camaro vehicles.

 

[WhalePirot]

Car Guys versus MBAs

No need for me to drop any Corvette names, but my limited view is this is the MBAs rearing their ugly heads in what appears as another cashout while Corvette sales are hot, and the cash infusion is maximized. Split it all up for this myopic goal, then watch it struggle and die; been up close and personal with that again and again.

I am thankful for the rebels at GM, especially after reading All Corvettes are Red and hearing my GM uncle's stories. I firmly believe in the superior engineering of our cars, but rue the cheapening that made my a rattler, when fasteners were minimized and plastics were chosen based upon price, etc.

Some, the car guys, know the value of the Corvette to Chevrolet and to GM. I hope the car guys prevail, again.

None of us wish to see the Coca Cola scenario happen to our favorite marque.

BTW, my first son has his MBA and mine was OJT earned.

 

[2012zr1]

Chevrolet Salespeople

:L What a moronic statement. Making blanket statements regarding the quality of salespeople Chevrolet has just makes me laugh. I am a Certified Product Specialist for a GM dealer and spend many hours training and testing to maintain my cert, besides having owned 22 Corvetts since 1980, and still own 3 today. If you have a question, I'll know the answer, or I will find it. I love our products and enjoy what I do and make a fantastic living selling Chevy, Buick and GMC. I grew up in a GM household, and have worked on every Corvette I have owned myself. Whatever business you are in, there are plenty of people who don't know or don't care about their job, so maybe look in the mirror, but there are plenty of us who do a great job and shine past the morons.

I recommended this to Dave McClellan in 1989. Corvette is now sold by Chevy dealers who sell te a year, know nothing about the product and have sales people who KNOW NOTHING about the product or it's heritage. By separating it from Chevrolet, Corvette could SELECT dealers who would stock, train on and support the product. Better dealers would increase the value of the franchise & insure MORE CONSISTENT QUALITY OF SERVICE between dealers. GM, the dealers and the customers would benefit greatly.

 

[Remo]

Hmmm

:L What a moronic statement. Making blanket statements regarding the quality of salespeople Chevrolet has just makes me laugh. I am a Certified Product Specialist for a GM dealer and spend many hours training and testing to maintain my cert, besides having owned 22 Corvetts since 1980, and still own 3 today. If you have a question, I'll know the answer, or I will find it. I love our products and enjoy what I do and make a fantastic living selling Chevy, Buick and GMC. I grew up in a GM household, and have worked on every Corvette I have owned myself. Whatever business you are in, there are plenty of people who don't know or don't care about their job, so maybe look in the mirror, but there are plenty of us who do a great job and shine past the morons.

2012zr1 welcome to the CAC. Calling someone a moron is probably not a good way to start. I think you could have been a little more diplomatic. After all, none of us have had the extensive background that you have.

 

[njlouc]

I bought my car used, so i am not directly familiar with the sales staff, however when inquiring about the new ones and asking them about the availability of used ones, the sales people in 2 agencies were very disappointing.

THEN when I got mine, I went to the dealer near my home for an oil change and whatever else. I politely introduced myself as a "new" owner and got the cold shoulder. They all seemed to be in a bad mood and with a tinge of jealousy??I had the oil changed there and never went back.

I also had to get a new "key " for the wheel locks. With some research and help from this group, I found that I could get the right code from the dealer to order a new key. BUT not from the Chev dealer -they wanted to drill the old ones out!!! I went across the street to Buick and they helped me.

I am reminded when VW came out with the Phaeton - a $75,000 car. It was sold and serviced by the VW dealers.
it went up like a lead balloon!!

Luckily Corvette has a long history and good reputation on its own.

i really doubt that it would be all that easy for Chevrolet to come out with a $100k car out of the blue today!!

 

[i10fwy]

:L What a moronic statement. Making blanket statements regarding the quality of salespeople Chevrolet has just makes me laugh. I am a Certified Product Specialist for a GM dealer and spend many hours training and testing to maintain my cert, besides having owned 22 Corvetts since 1980, and still own 3 today. If you have a question, I'll know the answer, or I will find it. I love our products and enjoy what I do and make a fantastic living selling Chevy, Buick and GMC. I grew up in a GM household, and have worked on every Corvette I have owned myself. Whatever business you are in, there are plenty of people who don't know or don't care about their job, so maybe look in the mirror, but there are plenty of us who do a great job and shine past the morons.

You sir, are contrary to the norm! Apparently the best trained in your store but look around, not just at your dealership, but dealership's as a whole. Corvette deserves a better distribution system than it currently has. Chevrolet does not have a lot of control over how individual store operate, they do however have control over product placement. If you are a knowledgeable well trained "Corvette Specialist" then perhaps your store would qualify.

i10fwy

 

[GRANDSPORT]

I know a couple of the biggest names in Corvette racing over the last 40 years. They have fought the battles you mention with GM & Chevrolet MBA's face to face on many occasions. None of them has ever uttered a word in favor of splitting Corvette from Chevrolet or GM. They are some of the unsung heroes who have helped the Corvette over some big internal GM political and financial hurdles.

But, they also know that it sometimes takes hugely deep pockets to push technology to the next level where no one has been before. If it works ... great .... but if that leap was in the wrong direction ... as has happened in the past ... a relatively small standalone operation will sooner or later not be able to recover from such an error.

Yeah, GM & Chevrolet have at times done tremendously stupid things with respect to the Corvette, but they have also enabled huge leaps in technology that no banker would have ever supported if an isolated company like "Corvette Motors" had sought funding.

And, yes, Chevy dealerships are rarely fountains of knowledge with respect to Corvettes. In the long run, dealerships don't really matter all that much when it comes to a specialty car like the Corvette. Poor dealerships can be tolerated if the product and the technology are superior.

Bottomline, GM is a giant political nightmare and the Corvette is an anomally. Without a specific big brother Division like Chevrolet to fight those political battles on behalf of the Corvette, the Corvette could never have survived all these years. Chevrolet has a piece of the action and fights for R&D on the Corvette line. And, in case anyone is confused, there have been many times when Corvette has been a financial drain and there have also been a number of times where certain Corvettes have been subsidized big time.

I bought my brand new 1994 ZR-1 for $54,000 just 60 days after they were pulling an average of $84,000 for every ZR1 they sold. When the ZF assembly line crashed for 70 days the ZR-1 world crumbled. Anyone really believe that an independent Corvette operation could have breezed through that kind of financial and plummeting sales crisis after developing a super engine with very limited marketability like the LT5 ZR1? Anyone really believe that ZR1 would have ever seen the light of day in an independent Corvette operation? Anyone really believe the current ZO6's and ZR1's would somehow have clawed their way out of the morass of a bankrupt GM without the clout of the Chevrolet division?

Anyone who knows corporate politics and understands true street smarts knows that Chevrolet is the division that pushed through Corvette technologies during bankruptcy and pushed the wisdom of allowing a synergistic relationship with the Cadillac CTS vehicles and now the Camaro vehicles.

I like your style....

 

[Hexmate]

I am voting with my heart, because as a purely business matter it may not make sense, but it made no sense when OBummer took over GM and screwed preferred stock and bond holders out of their equity. It makes it difficult to be a GM guy. I recently bought a Ford Escape as my business vechicle simply because it is a stockholder owned company with no govt. equity. Besides, any company that thinks the Volt is the car of the future does not deserve my business.
I still love my 96 LT4 CE, but would not consider a new Vette until the company is free of govt interference.

That is one of the MOST ridiculous statements I have ever read. What part of GM is being interfered with by the government? The Volt is an excellent car that came well before GM ran into financial difficulty. As a matter of fact you will notice all of the automakers are now coming to market with electric vehicles. Ford will introduce the electric Focus this summer. Do you know that Ford took a $7 billion loan from the government? Geeez this stuff makes me nuts when people post statements that are not factual.<o></o>

 

[plasboy]

You sir, are contrary to the norm! Apparently the best trained in your store but look around, not just at your dealership, but dealership's as a whole. Corvette deserves a better distribution system than it currently has. Chevrolet does not have a lot of control over how individual store operate, they do however have control over product placement. If you are a knowledgeable well trained "Corvette Specialist" then perhaps your store would qualify.

i10fwy

From what I hear from the dealers it is chevy/gm that makes it hard for the dealers to be better in lots of cases. Seems like they want to charge an arm and an leg to let a dealer participate in some programs and training. Many small dealers just can't justify it.

 

[jackel]

I don't think it would work very well. The dealers just need to have Corvette sales people who know the cars. When I bought my new Harley-Davidson the salesman knew less about the bike than I did. I hated to do it but I had to school him. Chevy and Corvette should stay together.

 

[Hexmate]

@njlouc

WOW!!! what a misunderstanding!! The media has truly done a great brainwashing job!!

GM was taken over by the govt (auto workers union), and canada.

They were given $billions in loans and bailouts. True they paid back SOME loans, but not nearly the hundreds of billions they got in bailouts. ad
NEXT - They are profitable because they stiffed all their suppliers when they (didnt go bankrupupt), but when they changed owners. So their costs were greatly reduced.
Then in a great move they took billions of YOUR money and built 2 buick plants in China with no Chinese subsidies, as we do here, so that the Chinese can build buicks and STEAL our technology AND have a huge plant for making WAR machines. Thats how they paid us back in full and made a profit.
BTW China makes it difficult to remove money made in China so most of this profit is on paper only and is used to further advance China:ugh

Of course we lost tons of all sorts of jobs. that's how Obama creates jobs!!

Please look it up.

Say what! That has to be the MOST nonsensical comment I have ever seen posted on this forum. Whatever that stuff is you are smoking it is time to go into rehab and get off of it. Where do you dream this stuff up at?

 

[catbert]

That is one of the MOST ridiculous statements I have ever read. What part of GM is being interfered with by the government? The Volt is an excellent car that came well before GM ran into financial difficulty. As a matter of fact you will notice all of the automakers are now coming to market with electric vehicles. Ford will introduce the electric Focus this summer. Do you know that Ford took a $7 billion loan from the government? Geeez this stuff makes me nuts when people post statements that are not factual.

Even Bob Lutz, not a big fan of any of the Washington administrations said that he/they never heard from the Feds about anything to do with products. They were watching the bottom line, not the vehicle mix or operations. And, as much as I loved the book, let's forget ALL CORVETTES ARE RED. That ship has sailed, all the principals on both side are long gone, and GM is 4 levels of management leaner. I believe the new Chairman knows what's going on at the lowest important decision making level in 2012. The fact that GM was able to crawl out of the hole tells me things are different, if not perfect.

 

[LuvmyC5]

Say what! That has to be the MOST nonsensical comment I have ever seen posted on this forum. Whatever that stuff is you are smoking it is time to go into rehab and get off of it. Where do you dream this stuff up at?

.........or share some of it! otfl

 

[Florida Guy]

It ain't broke, why fix it.