Question: Polishers - which is best?

[XLR8]

I've always polished my Vette by hand, mostly because I never had anyone experienced enough with the polishers to teach me proper technique. I was always afraid of messing up the finish.

But after detailing my C5 this week, I was disappointed to see my beloved Zaino and hard work just didn't get all the swirl marks and fine scratches. She looks good!!! but... the closer you look the more you see.

There's another recent thread in which a member mentioned using Meguiar's 105 and 205 with a dual action polisher to remove SM and FS. While doing some reading on the subject, I came across mention of 3 different machines:

• random orbital
• dual action
• rotary machine polisher

So I need help...

...can someone give me a description of these 3, explaining the differences between them and tell me which you prefer and why?

Thanks in advance!
Jane Ann

 

[6 Shooter]

Mothers® PowerBall 4Paint®

​

Mothers® PowerBall 4Paint®​

 

[Scrrem]

There's another recent thread in which a member mentioned using Meguiar's 105 and 205 with a dual action polisher to remove SM and FS. While doing some reading on the subject, I came across mention of 3 different machines:

• random orbital
• dual action
• rotary machine polisher

So I need help...

...can someone give me a description of these 3, explaining the differences between them and tell me which you prefer and why?

Thanks in advance!
Jane Ann

I am still learning this stuff myself, but from what I have read, the random orbital is the most forgiving as fair as doing damage to your paint. You can get out minor swirl marks with a random orbital and it won't burn you paint. This is the better machine for the beginner.

To do more aggressive paint correction, like bad swirl marks or minor scratches, the dual action or rotary are the better machines but you must be careful, these can damage to paint if used incorrectly. These machines are for the experienced!!!
Scrrem

 

[Dustoff529]

I use a Porter Cable random orbital and have for years... Takes a 2 -3 day job to 1... I checked Tyler Tool (online) usually has a good selection of reconditioned power tools.. they did have one. THey can be found for < $100 easy to use and will last FOREVER

Charlie

 

[Dustoff529]

To do more aggressive paint correction, like bad swirl marks or minor scratches, the dual action or rotary are the better machines but you must be careful, these can damage to paint if used incorrectly. These machines are for the experienced!!!
Scrrem

This is SO TRUE! I default to my brother for the bufer treatment if I need that!

Charlie

 

[Cosmin]

i have a g110 meguiar`s is similar to pc , is a great tool , dual action polisher.
orbital buffer- if are the cheap 6 inch or 10 inch with 20-30 bucks , no good , u can`t do correction with that.
an rotary is too much to start on a vette .
i just got an flex Da but i didn`t have time to test it , is between pc and rotary. faster than pc , better finish than rotary , a lot of power to remove defects.
today i will try it on a hood.
if u never use a machine polisher i will go with the new g110v2 meguiar`s or griotts garage has a dual action polisher ( more powerfull) than pc.
if the finish is in bad shape u may wanna consider some cutting pads.
Cosmin

 

[GS Diva]

A random orbital is the way to go for the inexperienced. It doesn't take much to burn the paint on the more professional buffers.

Elaine

 

[richscorvettes]

As other folks have mentioned we've also used a Porter Cable random orbit buffer for many years. Since you are a Zaino user you might want to try their Fusion polish. It's a mild polish but has produced great results for us in removing minor scratches and swirl marks and is compatible with other Zaino products.

Rich

 

[Dad]

I'll second that, Porter Cable 7424 all the way. Started out with a 7" B&D buffer in the 50's when you used cut down, polish, and buff, and the new paints needed something different. What a joy to use over the old buffer. Be sure to change the pads if you change from micro polish to polish or any other compound change. Speed control is it's best feature after size and weight. ;-) Way better to control swirl marks if you even have any to control. Makes waxing a snap. Plus it doesn't sling compound all over the car, garage, and you.

 

[XLR8]

Outstanding! Thanks for all the replies and suggestions everyone. I"ll have a little better understanding of what I'm looking at and what I need. As soon as I have a few days off again I'll take a look around the net to see what I can find.

 

[longspur]

www.autogeek.net

Everyone has there personal favorite.

I just so happened to choose the PC 7424xp and zaino products.

Recently finished my car and it looks outstanding. Only did 5 steps and it turned out awesome. Took about 8 hours at a good pace from start to finish.


1.clay bar
2.Z5
3.Z2
4.Z2
5.grand finale

Lots of good products out there. The autogeek site has some good videos and if you go to youtube and search for the junkman Adams videos they are good too.

 

[Hib Halverson]

There is a discussion of polishers in one article which is part a series of stories on car care which are posted elsehwere on the CAC.

Take a look at:
Corvette Action Center | Tech Center | Practical Corvette Care 101

 

[XLR8]

There is a discussion of polishers in one article which is part a series of stories on car care which are posted elsehwere on the CAC.

Take a look at:
Corvette Action Center | Tech Center | Practical Corvette Care 101

Thanks Hib! I remembered reading the article ages ago, but couldn't locate it with a thread search - I'd forgotten it was in the Tech Center!!

Jane Ann

 

[Toms007]

Jane Ann, I would also like to put in my vote for the Porter Cable 7424XP. I have the older model 7424, not a lot of difference between them, mostly in ergonomics and a little different in speeds.

If you have swirls that you are trying to get rid of, the Zaino line doesn't really have a product to remove them. That's one of the big reasons I switched to Adams Line. I think that there is going to be a detailing clinic at Cruisefest this summer and I think that MAM has a product that will remove swirls and haze, so you might want to hold off on purchasing any of those types of products until we attend the clinic.

I might even bring my stuff (the PC, pads and products) along and show you what we can do.

 

[Dad]

There is a discussion of polishers in one article which is part a series of stories on car care which are posted elsehwere on the CAC.

Take a look at:
Corvette Action Center | Tech Center | Practical Corvette Care 101

Hib;

Is there a reason to drag the power cord on the side of the fender while you polish the top? 630_12sm.jpg

:L

 

[Hib Halverson]

Thanks Hib! I remembered reading the article ages ago, but couldn't locate it with a thread search - I'd forgotten it was in the Tech Center!!

Jane Ann

You are welcome, Jane Ann. Glad to be of service.

I'll add that it's been more than a year since the series on car care was posted and I continue to use my Cyclo polisher. We use it often and it's proving to be an outstanding tool acquisition because it doesn't have the vibration typical of single-headed orbital. This is an important issue because if you have a long session polishing---say you're doing two cars--the vibration starts to make my arms get fatigued.

 

[catbert]

I like the Porter Cable. I can do two cars in one day with cleaner, polish, sealer.:ugh

 

[Junkman2008]

Just in case someone stumbles upon this thread, I would like to correct some of the information posted here. Since this is an area of study that is dear to me, I may be able to shine some light on some of the confusion I see.

I've always polished my Vette by hand, mostly because I never had anyone experienced enough with the polishers to teach me proper technique. I was always afraid of messing up the finish.

But after detailing my C5 this week, I was disappointed to see my beloved Zaino and hard work just didn't get all the swirl marks and fine scratches. She looks good!!! but... the closer you look the more you see.

There's another recent thread in which a member mentioned using Meguiar's 105 and 205 with a dual action polisher to remove SM and FS. While doing some reading on the subject, I came across mention of 3 different machines:

• random orbital
• dual action
• rotary machine polisher

So I need help...

...can someone give me a description of these 3, explaining the differences between them and tell me which you prefer and why?

Thanks in advance!
Jane Ann

Hey Jane Ann,
First of all, there are 2 different types of polishers. Two of them are orbitals (or dual-action as they are also called), and the third is a rotary. The professional or most aggressive is the rotary polisher. The back plate of a rotary buffer does nothing but spin. It has a very powerful motor with a good deal of torque and does not bog down when you apply pressure to it. The more pressure you apply with this buffer, the more clear coat/paint it will cut off the car. The fear of burning the paint is a healthy one that you should have as this buffer can heat up the paint rather quickly do to the law of friction.

The second 2 types of polishers are BOTH orbitals or DA's (dual-action). The term "orbital" or "dual action" describes the movement of the back plate (which is what you attach your buffing pad to). The back rotates just as a rotary buffer does, but it also oscillates. Think of it as the way the earth spins. The earth spins on its axis (rotation), but it also makes big circles around the sun (orbit or oscillation). These two different movements is were the terms "dual-action" and "orbital" come from. They describe how the back plate moves. The following picture should help explain the two movements, as well as the difference between the two machines.

As I said previously, there are two types of orbitals. The difference between the two is that one has a clutched rotation and the other has a forced rotation. There are some polishers that have the ability to be both with the throw of a switch. The Porter-Cable 7424XP (or PC as it is most commonly referred to), is the most popular "clutched" polisher. With a clutched orbital, applying pressure will cause the polisher to decrease the speed that it is rotating (spinning on its axis). It does not affect the polisher's speed of oscillation. Because the rotation is what cuts the most clear off the car, laying on the polisher with a lot of pressure practically makes the polisher useless. It will do some work, but YOU are the one who is working unnecessarily hard by working the polisher too hard. The ideal thing is to allow the polisher to do ALL the work by using a proper technique. Using a proper technique yields the maximum amount of effectiveness that you can have with a machine that is not very powerful.

The second type of DA or orbital is one that has "forced rotation". This polisher does exactly as the name suggest; it forces the back plate to rotate. What that means is as you start to apply pressure, these polishers will start cutting a lot more clear/paint off the car. The back plate is moving in a rotating and oscillating manner which has some degree of safety built in, however, due to the fact that you cannot bog this polisher down with pressure, it can be dangerous in the hands of a novice. The Flex 3401VRG is an example of a polisher with forced rotation.

Here are two videos that demonstrate everything that I have stated thus far. Seeing it with your own eyes is always much more effective.


YouTube - How Safe is the PC 7424XP - Part 1


YouTube - How Safe is the PC 7424XP - Part 2

I am still learning this stuff myself, but from what I have read, the random orbital is the most forgiving as fair as doing damage to your paint. You can get out minor swirl marks with a random orbital and it won't burn you paint. This is the better machine for the beginner.

To do more aggressive paint correction, like bad swirl marks or minor scratches, the dual action or rotary are the better machines but you must be careful, these can damage to paint if used incorrectly. These machines are for the experienced!!!
Scrrem

As you have learned from my post above, the orbital and dual-action polishers are the same animal. The DA is very capable of fixing some pretty bad stuff. The secret is having a good technique and effective polishes and pads. Here are some examples of stuff that I am able to fix with the PC.

This was a truck that I used to demonstrate paint correction. It was a delivery truck that was seldom washed and when it was, it was always washed incorrectly.

Here are some close up shots of the damage. The swirls and scratches were in rare form!

And now for the fixed versions! I finished up just as it started to rain. In the pictures, what may appear as scratches or dust are actually rain drops. Somebody up there likes me.

As you can see, the PC is a very capable machine despite its lack of power.

i have a g110 meguiar`s is similar to pc , is a great tool , dual action polisher.
orbital buffer- if are the cheap 6 inch or 10 inch with 20-30 bucks , no good , u can`t do correction with that.
an rotary is too much to start on a vette .
i just got an flex Da but i didn`t have time to test it , is between pc and rotary. faster than pc , better finish than rotary , a lot of power to remove defects.
today i will try it on a hood.
if u never use a machine polisher i will go with the new g110v2 meguiar`s or griotts garage has a dual action polisher ( more powerfull) than pc.
if the finish is in bad shape u may wanna consider some cutting pads.
Cosmin

Actually, the Meguiar's rebadged PC and the Griot's version are no better than the PC when talking about power. As a matter of fact, all three machines are very close to equal. What I tell people to do is buy the cheaper of the three. I will add that the PC is an extremely well built machine and personally, I would always choose it over any similar machine. Those things are bullet proof and will last for years.

One more thing, you can get the same finish with a rotary as you can with the Flex. A more accurate statement would be that a lot of hack jobs out there have to follow their rotary work with a DA because they don't know how to use a rotary.

A random orbital is the way to go for the inexperienced. It doesn't take much to burn the paint on the more professional buffers.

Elaine

BINGO.

As other folks have mentioned we've also used a Porter Cable random orbit buffer for many years. Since you are a Zaino user you might want to try their Fusion polish. It's a mild polish but has produced great results for us in removing minor scratches and swirl marks and is compatible with other Zaino products.

Rich

Very good point Rich. Zaino's PC Fusion (ZPC) is the Zaino polish used to remove scratches, haze and swirls. However, ZPC must be followed with a finishing polish and Zaino doesn't really have one. The reason you need to follow it with a finishing polish is because ZPC (just as any substantial paint damage removing polish), leaves the paint beat up and dull looking, especially on dark colors. This is also true with Meguiar's M105, Adam's Swirl & Haze Remover and every other aggressive paint repairing compound. Following the aggressive polish with a light polish is what brings the crisp and rich shine back to the paint. That's why Meguiar's has M205 and Adam's has their Fine Machine Polish. If I have to use ZPC, I will usually follow it with one of the two listed above or use Meguiar's #9 afterward. Personally as a rule of thumb, I tell people to stick with one product brand as they are engineered to work together. Mixing different on the same car can leave you with sub par results, especially if you are a novice at paint correction.

Hib;

Is there a reason to drag the power cord on the side of the fender while you polish the top? 630_12sm.jpg

:L

That's a mistake that novices make. You always want to drop the power cord over your shoulder or run it trough your belt loop so that doesn't happen.

 

[Junkman2008]

Here's some more damage that I was able to repair with the PC. I thought that I would share.

Needless to say, I'm a detailing freakazoid. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it's a nice car that looks like crap. A crappy car can look like crap but a nice one should reflect pride in ownership. A neighbor of mine has a Z with no garage to park it in so it spent the last year (including some nasty weeks of snow) on the street. It is white in color but now looks dingy. Every day that I drive past it, I just want to smack him.

A little about me, I'm a computer guru who is self employed. I like it that way because I can spend as much time as I want keeping my ride spotless. I also enjoy sharing my passion for detailing with the world, and thus I have created a boat load of detailing videos in order to help those who want to keep their ride clean and spotless. With cars as nice as these, one should never allow them to fall victim of poor maintenance. The following is just a few of the many saves that I have had to perform on some rides that were not properly cared for. I know I'll see a Z in my future.

I have had the fun of tackling some nasty damage while showing folks the correct way to remove paint damage. Some of which I chronicled in pictures and videos. I thought that I would share some of those pictures here. One thing that I must point out is that a lot of the paint damage that I repair is not necessarily about the products that I used, it is more about the technique that I use and knowing which products will best address that damage.

For example, most folks that follow my You Tube channel know that I use Adam's Polishes in my videos and how to's. However, my garage has everything in it from 3M products to Meguiar's and Zaino (Meguiar's has actually contacted me about creating some videos for them). For every product that I used from the Adam's line, I could have replaced with a product from the Meguiar's or Zaino line and gotten the same exact results. It is having a understanding of what each product does and when to use it that is far more important than the name on the bottle. As I look at all the professional products that I have tried, I can honestly say that the end result from using each brand has always been identical for me. Some brands limit the range of damage that their products are capable of addressing for simplicity but in the end, I have always found myself in "Shineville". The most obvious difference with all the professional lines that I have used is the way they get you to Shineville. You will never hear me say that one product is the best because what may be best for me may NOT be best for you. Thus, the question you have to answer is, "What product is best for YOU!"

As I said, it is not so much about what I used as it is about having a thorough understanding of each product's capability. After all, any good detailer can take any quality product and eventually end up with very positive results after minimal use to familiarize themselves with that product. It's when you try to compare the over the counter products with the type of products that I use that will generate some obvious performance differences. You really do get what you pay for in the automotive detailing arena.

With that said, here are the pics!


2004 Corvette Convertible with Rear Fascia Damage

The first prospect was a 2004 Corvette that had been damaged in a garage by some boxes. Part of the damage was through the clear coat so the only thing that could be done there was to make it less noticeable. The other damage was removed. I basically used clay to clean up the area before I started working on it (a must whenever I touch a car that needs it), and then I wet sanded it using 2500 grit to start and finished up with 3000 grit paper before moving to my swirl and scratch removing compound. Although I used Adam's products for this repair, I could have easily used some Meguiar's Fine Cut Cleaner and Swirl & Scratch Remover in place of the Adam's products.

A forum member dropped me a PM about a scratch he picked up. He told me that he tried to fix it but nothing worked. So I told him to bring his Vette over and allow me to have a look at it.

Once he arrived and I got a look at the damage, I realized that the scratch was like a well: Deeeeeep! He didn't realize how bad it was. Once I explained to him the options (either have the entire rear fascia painted or let me take a crack at it), he stated that he wanted me to give it a try. He said that he had seen a thread I did about a lady with a nasty scratch on her front fascia and if her's could be fixed, anything was possible. So I went at it.

Here was what we were looking at. This was the long shot. I wanted to see if I could notice them without getting close. Dave and I didn't see the second scratch until I washed the rear fascia off.

Now for a Corvette owner, these scratches may as well have been graffiti spray painted on the car. They were really noticeable. I then got in close and realized why Dave said those those scratches were back there just screaming at him as he drove down the road. I'm sure there are other members here who can relate to this, especially when you're talking about your baby. It's like having lettuce stuck between you teeth on a blind date.

As you can see, these were some serious scratches and the one between the tail lights has went through the clear coat and down to the paint. This was going to take some serious magic. I washed the rear fascia just to see if any of the damage would disappear. Ha! Fat chance. So I broke out some cutting polish and went at it.

I went at both scratches twice and this is what they looked like after I was done.

Now the scratch on the outside of the rear fascia was going to be a little work but I could see that polish was going to eventually remove it. However, the one between the tail lights was going to take something stronger than a polish. This scratch was going to require some wet sanding.

The Junkman's Disclaimer: Now let me stress the importance of this being something that you never try at home unless you have been professionally trained on how to do this. You can quickly cut through the clear coat on your car and be into the paint with a few strokes of the wrong sandpaper. I only show this for documenting purposes only, not as an endorsement for you to try!

Realizing what needed to be done, I broke out my wet sanding supplies. Some 2500 & 3000 grit sandpaper, a sanding block and a clean bucket of water. I let the sand paper soak for 25 minutes before I stated using it. Something my daddy taught me to do but I can't remember why it is necessary.

After the sandpaper was ready, I went at it. Dave had chewed his fingers down to the nubs by the first minute.

After knocking the areas even, I took these photos. The white that you see that really enhances the scratches is some of the clear coat that I have removed from the car. I constantly checked my paint thickness gauge to ensure that I wasn't removing to much clear coat (I have to use the DeFelsko PosiTector 200-B Advanced because it is the only gauge that I could find that will take multilevel reading off fiberglass).

Next, I went back at the scratches with my scratch remover. After 2 passes, the scratch on the outside of the rear fascia was pretty much history. One thing to note between the picture above and the picture below. You can see how much damage the sand paper has done in the picture above because there is no shine in the area where the scratch was. I followed the scratch removing compound with a lighter, finishing polish (Adam's Fine Machine Polish). That is what put the final shine on the paint. Now look at the picture below. The finishing polish has brought that reflectivity back to showroom quality. It is NOT wax that makes paint shine, it is polishing (not polish but POLISHING... the act of) that makes paint shine. Wax only protects the shine/paint that you get from polishing. The picture below is positive proof of this as there is not a drop of wax on the area that I'm working.

Some carnuba waxes can add depth to the shine you have achieved from polishing, but no wax is going to make the paint shinier.

The one between the tail lights was still there, but was a whole lot less noticeable. This would have required repainting the bumper to fix it 100% but as any paint shop will tell you, matching the color red is usually a nightmare. In the business, we like to call this "a great save".

Now I'm ready to put some wax on the rear fascia and see the final results.

After applying and allowing it to haze, I wiped it off and saw the final results. You will notice that there is no difference in the shine after I have applied wax.

Here's a wide shot of the rear fascia.

...and now for the money shot!

Needless to say, he very happy with the results.




2005 Ford Mustang with Brillo Pad Damage

This guy's wife wanted to surprise him by washing his car while he was away on business. She used a Brillo Pad because she really wanted to get it clean. She had no idea of how bad she was damaging the car until she got all the way from one side of the hood to the other side. Needless to say, he was crushed!


Here's the damage:

Now for some after shots. The lighting wasn't all that great so I did the best I could with the first set of pictures. The sun decided to come out on the following day.

Here's what I used: Clayed with clay bar and detail spray, then I went to a scratch remover on a orange pad, followed by FSP on a white pad. I then added my wax. I wiped the area down with detail spray before moving between each product. The following day allowed me to pull the car out into the sun and tackle the other half of the hood.This was a shot of the other side of the hood before I fixed it.

Here's a shot of the rest of the hood fixed.

While at this particular show, some guys from Dynamic Motorsports approached me and asked if I had something for a scratch in their black convertible Shelby. They wanted some touch up paint. I went over and took a look at the scratch. It was ugly. What was even more ugly was the fact that they wanted to use touch up paint. Check out the scratch:

The clear coat on this car was unlike any I have ever seen in my life. It was slick as glass. Not one pimple of orange peel in it whatsoever. I have never seen a car as slick as this. It was unreal.

So, I broke out some scratch remover and FSP, the orange and white pads along with some 2500-3000 grit sandpaper. I went at that scratch for a while until it was gone.

Then, I used my polishes to bring the finish back to perfect.

Here's a shot of this beautiful ride!

That ride has been restored back to its original luster!



2002 Corvette Coupe with Front Fascia Damage

Okay boys and girls, another one from the desk of The Junkman. A friend of mine showed up in her 2002 Black Corvette Coupe with what appeared to be the damage caused by a truck which had backed up onto her front fascia. The damage was deep and nasty. I washed the bumper and dried it off just so that I could get a clean look at how much damage was actually there. Here's what I was looking at:

Here's a short video of the same damage.


As you can see, this was not going to be a walk in the park. However, using the same technique as described above (minus the sand paper), I was able to make the damage look a lot less noticeable.


Step 1. The first thing I did was wash the bumper so that I could see what damage was actually done. The next thing I did was clayed the bumper in order to remove any impurities in the clear coat. Remember, the prep is the key to the success that you will see when the work is done. This Vette is a daily driver and is not garaged so my final goal was not perfection, it was to make the bumper appear to have never been hit at all.


Here's video of me hitting the bumper with clay.


A funny side note: After I dried the car off from the clay bar work, my friend gasped and then stated with concern that the scratch was still there. Since I hadn't done anything to remove the scratch up to that point, it was still supposed to be there. She was under the misconception that claying removes scratches. Now she knows better.

Step 2. The next thing I did was hit the bumper with scratch and FSP products. I basically made two passes over the bumper with this combination. After wiping the bumper down, I took some pictures of the bumper up to that point:

Step 3. I finished the job up with a coat of wax and then took these pictures. Again, this is a daily driver which is not garage kept. Although that is the case, you can see that the job turned out pretty nice. The little imperfections that you see in the pictures below are actually things being reflected off my garage wall.

...and finally, one happy camper!

2010 Brilliant Black Dodge Charger


The Specimen...

As for the car in question, here's the deal. Someone had scratched this car from the front fender all the way to the back of the rear door. The scratch was relatively deep. To make matters worse, they use blobs of touch-up paint to attempt to fix the scratch. After seeing how much worse the touch-up paint looked, they attempted to wipe the touch up paint off the car. That did nothing but smear the paint everywhere. The final dagger was when they parked the car with the paint still wet in what appeared to be a sand storm. Here's what the car looked like after I finally noticed it (I didn't notice this when I picked up the car because it was overcast).

Okay, let's get this party started!

These action shots are courtesy of John at The Shutter Group. They do event photography. Notice my buffing face!

... and now for the finished product!

She's back to her original beauty.



The Junkman

 

[catbert]

Awesome,