rebuilt engine smoking !

[madmoon]

hi everyone, have just had bottom of engine proffesionally rebuilt by reputable firm. rebore, new flat tops and rings, new cam, lifters, balanced crank etc. i fitted 2 new pro torker heads with new springs and 1.6 rockers and new pushrods topped with a weiand intake and new holley. car goes really well but alas starts to smoke heavily after she warms up. evidence shows oil in intake ports and exhaust ports and having removed heads its in the bores as well. maybe half a teaspoon in each one. i have no umbrella seals on the valves and like an idiot i fitted the head with some very old valves cleaned up from a camaro. could these be my problem. i have replaced the intake gaskets twice and the pesky oil is syill getting in and burning!! 60-70 pound of oil pressure and goes kike hell, just cant see where i just been!! help!!! thanks, phil uk.:confused

 

[Vette79]

hi everyone, have just had bottom of engine proffesionally rebuilt by reputable firm. rebore, new flat tops and rings, new cam, lifters, balanced crank etc. i fitted 2 new pro torker heads with new springs and 1.6 rockers and new pushrods topped with a weiand intake and new holley. car goes really well but alas starts to smoke heavily after she warms up. evidence shows oil in intake ports and exhaust ports and having removed heads its in the bores as well. maybe half a teaspoon in each one. i have no umbrella seals on the valves and like an idiot i fitted the head with some very old valves cleaned up from a camaro. could these be my problem. i have replaced the intake gaskets twice and the pesky oil is syill getting in and burning!! 60-70 pound of oil pressure and goes kike hell, just cant see where i just been!! help!!! thanks, phil uk.:confused

Maybe installing an oil catch can will clear up the issue. Did you have the new valves fitted with the heads first?

 

[madmoon]

Maybe installing an oil catch can will clear up the issue. Did you have the new valves fitted with the heads first?

hi jeff, i have stripped heads off today and i think i,m getting an idea of whats going on. the inlet ports and inlet chambers and valves are soaking in oil. there is evwn engine oil in the cylinder bores, not a lot but i,m beggining to suspect i,ve got a problem with the inlet manifold pulling oil in past the gaskets somehow. what do you think? thanks, phil, uk

 

[Vette79]

hi jeff, i have stripped heads off today and i think i,m getting an idea of whats going on. the inlet ports and inlet chambers and valves are soaking in oil. there is evwn engine oil in the cylinder bores, not a lot but i,m beggining to suspect i,ve got a problem with the inlet manifold pulling oil in past the gaskets somehow. what do you think? thanks, phil, uk

Do you still have your PCV system still hooked up along with the passenger side breather tube? If so, pull the PCV off and check that rubber tube that goes from the PCV to the carb. Let us know if it is soaked in oil inside the tube. When I did my rebuild I had oil blowing past the PCV and into the intake manifold via this rubber tube. I installed an oil catch can to resolve the issue of oil being sucked in to the intake and mixing with the air fuel mixture for burn.

 

[madmoon]

Do you still have your PCV system still hooked up along with the passenger side breather tube? If so, pull the PCV off and check that rubber tube that goes from the PCV to the carb. Let us know if it is soaked in oil inside the tube. When I did my rebuild I had oil blowing past the PCV and into the intake manifold via this rubber tube. I installed an oil catch can to resolve the issue of oil being sucked in to the intake and mixing with the air fuel mixture for burn.

i removed the pcv pipe and breather jeff as i now just have the two breather caps in the valve covers. the car is actually an 84 vette that has a 73 motor in it and all the smog reduction system has been removed along with the management system, far less hassle or so i hoped! the only pipes to the carb are the advance/ retard to the dizzy and the brake servo boost. what i forgot to mention as well jeff is that the valve covers and underneath the inlet manifold is caked in mixed oil and water like cream. this also makes me suspect inlet gaskets. appreciate your views. thanks again, phil

 

[Vette79]

i removed the pcv pipe and breather jeff as i now just have the two breather caps in the valve covers. the car is actually an 84 vette that has a 73 motor in it and all the smog reduction system has been removed along with the management system, far less hassle or so i hoped! the only pipes to the carb are the advance/ retard to the dizzy and the brake servo boost. what i forgot to mention as well jeff is that the valve covers and underneath the inlet manifold is caked in mixed oil and water like cream. this also makes me suspect inlet gaskets. appreciate your views. thanks again, phil

Phil, might it be time to do a leak down check and or compression check on the cylinders?

 

[madmoon]

yes i think when i,ve cleaned up the heads and re assembled thm with new gaskets i,ll do a comp test. what do you mean by leakdown? the pistons are all new and have just had re-bore to + 30 but i suppose i could have busted a ring maybe but the engines only been run for an hour or so and travelled a mile at most. it pulls very well and no significant lack of power. phil

 

[73shark]

Have you checked the intake gaskets when you removed them? A possible angle mismatch between the heads and the intake manifold might be where you are sucking the oil in. Sounds like too much oil for it to be the valve seals. Plus the water in the oil points to the intake also.

Hope you didn't flog it too much w/ water in the oil. :ugh

 

[madmoon]

thanks for that shark, yes i am definately beggining to think its a mismatch. had problems with the front and rear intake seals both on and with them both not used. i now need to find out how to check if there is a mismatch, this is all new to me. i thought of using a dye on the gaskets or checking with a feeler guage between the intake and heads with gaskets on to see if i can somehow measure the gap. thanks again and any more advice would be welcome. phil, uk. thanks also to jeff if you are still about.

 

[BigJimZ16]

thanks for that shark, yes i am definately beggining to think its a mismatch. had problems with the front and rear intake seals both on and with them both not used. i now need to find out how to check if there is a mismatch, this is all new to me. i thought of using a dye on the gaskets or checking with a feeler guage between the intake and heads with gaskets on to see if i can somehow measure the gap. thanks again and any more advice would be welcome. phil, uk. thanks also to jeff if you are still about.

Was your block decked and if so by how much? Do the intake bolts seem to go in the center of the holes or are they offset to the bottom of the intake? Could point to intake gasket mismatch.

 

[73shark]

Also don't use the front and rear gaskets for the intake manifold. Use black RTV silicone. That won't affect your problem but will help prevent oil leaks at those two locations in the future.

 

[Vette79]

thanks for that shark, yes i am definately beggining to think its a mismatch. had problems with the front and rear intake seals both on and with them both not used. i now need to find out how to check if there is a mismatch, this is all new to me. i thought of using a dye on the gaskets or checking with a feeler guage between the intake and heads with gaskets on to see if i can somehow measure the gap. thanks again and any more advice would be welcome. phil, uk. thanks also to jeff if you are still about.

Cool. Keep us posted on the fix.

 

[madmoon]

Was your block decked and if so by how much? Do the intake bolts seem to go in the center of the holes or are they offset to the bottom of the intake? Could point to intake gasket mismatch.

dont know if its ever been decked jim cos it had several owners here in the uk before it was more or less abandoned by its last owner and just stood outside for some years.i dont know if theres any way of telling just by looking.my main concern is that it has,nt got a damaged or cracked block but it seems unlikely as the power is all there and no signs of water contamination at all below the heads, it all seems to be above the heads, only oil below that. the head gaskets were not damaged and no sign of blowing either.

 

[TimAT]

Also don't use the front and rear gaskets for the intake manifold. Use black RTV silicone. That won't affect your problem but will help prevent oil leaks at those two locations in the future.

ABSOLUTLY

And clean the block and the intake with alcohol or brake cleaner. If there's even a trace of oil the RTV won't stick!

 

[GerryLP]

Madmonn,

Did you give up on the idea to take it back to the shop who worked it? I mean, it is not cheap, and they should (they would be in the hook to make the engine run like it is supposed to) fix it!

GerryLP:cool


p.s. Smoking after an engine build is not unheard of. The problem is that there are a few conditions that they could have brought upon to cause the problem.

 

[TimAT]

All the oil in the intake ports would lead me to think maybe there's a valve guide problem.

 

[Evolution1980]

Late to the game here, as it seems you are on the correct path, but

60-70 pound of oil pressure

Isn't that a bit high? Also, I suppose if you put too much oil in the engine you'll have problems also. (sometimes it's the simplest of things...)

 

[Vette79]

Late to the game here, as it seems you are on the correct path, butIsn't that a bit high? Also, I suppose if you put too much oil in the engine you'll have problems also. (sometimes it's the simplest of things...)

My oil pressure is that high without this issue.

 

[TMPJoe]

hi everyone, have just had bottom of engine proffesionally rebuilt by reputable firm. rebore, new flat tops and rings, new cam, lifters, balanced crank etc. i fitted 2 new pro torker heads with new springs and 1.6 rockers and new pushrods topped with a weiand intake and new holley. car goes really well but alas starts to smoke heavily after she warms up. evidence shows oil in intake ports and exhaust ports and having removed heads its in the bores as well. maybe half a teaspoon in each one. i have no umbrella seals on the valves and like an idiot i fitted the head with some very old valves cleaned up from a camaro. could these be my problem. i have replaced the intake gaskets twice and the pesky oil is syill getting in and burning!! 60-70 pound of oil pressure and goes kike hell, just cant see where i just been!! help!!! thanks, phil uk.:confused

correct me if i am wrong//

the torg heads are have a radiused valve seat

old valves from an old camaro.. not sure you have that one correct

those are not the best of heads.. inexpensive but not the best... still i would ask someone to look at the heads themselves

 

[madmoon]

thanks guys!

just a quick message to thank everyone for their help. willreply to all later. on way back to work just called home to check blog. wish i had one of your rigs, i might get job done quicker,lol. better go and earn some more vette running money. cheers, phil, uk.