383 Retro

[fc3]

Hey Guys,
Could'nt find a 400 ci as planned...
Today I ordered TRW forged flat top pistons, eagle SIR rods, 3.75 eagle ESP forged crank,plasma moly rings, H series bearings. Internal balanced, Computer balanced rotating assembly.
For a 383. 350 bored .030. I am planning on Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Comp xtreme 268 cam, Q-jet carb, MSD distributor using my tach(cable), I have 400 turbo tranny(stock), 3.08 stock rear gears. I have PB,AC,PS lots of vac needed. I have the 454 hood... Will the Performer RPM intake work? If not, could I mill it down and make it work?
Which coated headers?
Will Z-28 oil pump and pan with windage tray work?
Water pump?
Want corvette valve covers...don't know which ones.
Expect 450 hp, 450 ft/lbs
Any thoughts???? Fred.

 

[Stingray6974]

Fred,
Don't take this personal but it will be a dog off the line. You will need to either go to a lower rear end gear or a smaller cam. I would use the AFR 190 heads instead of the Edelbrock.

Mike

 

[fc3]

Mike, Please explain your reasons for smaller cam. Also why AFR190? Fred.
PS- Not personal at all! I put it on the forum looking for opinions from others who may have more experience or understanding than me. Thank you for the help. Fred.

 

[69MyWay]

The trouble with that cam combo and your rear gear/torque converter and weight of the car is that it will bogg and be fat on the bottom end.

This is because that cam requires the motor to really spin fast, quick, and to higher RPM to hit the sweet spot. You can't hit that sweet spot with the drivetrain combo. So, in reality you may make less power than your stock engine, say below 2,800 RPM, which will make the car feel aweful, suck tons of wasted gas, and put a frown on your face.

A smaller cam will work better to help generate cylinder pressure and port volocity at lower RPM, thus putting the torque and HP in a more usable location for your drive train.

On the flip side, go with a wild stall converter, and 4.10 rear gears, keep that cam, and hang on to your seat because now you are going to go freaky wild. However, the car will end up being a pain to drive in traffic, and your highway cruising will be poor (as well as fuel economy).

When you say "454" hood, do you mean the L88, the LT1/427 style, or the standard later model year hood of big and small blocks from like 73-77?

Unless you go for the gusto and run the L88 hood, you will have a very tight squeeze in there. Evo1980 has a very interesting custom hood on his car that is an aftermarket. You will need to look for that kind of extra space to get the intake, carb, and a decent air cleaner to squeez into place.

 

[fc3]

Chris, Which cam would you suggest? Can I mill the performer RPM? The hood is from 1972-454. I really want to keep streetability so wife can drive in traffic, if necesary. Will send photo later. gotta go to soccer game. Thanks, Fred.

 

[69MyWay]

Chris, Which cam would you suggest? Can I mill the performer RPM? The hood is from 1972-454. I really want to keep streetability so wife can drive in traffic, if necesary. Will send photo later. gotta go to soccer game. Thanks, Fred.

You really should spend some time on the tech line with your choice of vendors. I like Edelbrock, but I know for a fact Mike (Stingray6974) does not-at least in the RPM series.

Crane makes some great cams and will spend quality time with you on the phone as soon as you get through to somebody. They should be able to help recommend something.

 

[fc3]

How do I post photo's? Fred.

 

[sscam69]

If I were going to go aluminum heads and spend 1K on them I would go with Air Flow Research (AFR) heads. The are hands down the best flowing (high velocity) ported aluminum heads you can buy. I have done research and these guys just flat out take the cake when it comes to bang/buck!! I am going with their heads.

Going with a 400c.i. with their 195 heads with a similar cam (going to have the drivetrain setup for it) and now I am thinking of the small roots blower from holley. That would freaking ROCK!! that should easily get me 600fwhp!!

Damn I need to calm down!!:L

I have AFR's 2002 catalog and they have some dyno runs in the back

example:

AFR 190cc Street heads
383c.i.
9.5 Compression Ratio
1 3/4" headers
AFR FloPower RMP manifold (same as performer RPM)
750 Holley
Hydraulic Roller Cam #12-433-8
MSD 36 deg total timing
93 octane

GET THIS
517ftlbs/503hp!! and its making 450ftlbs from 2.5krpm-6K or the

OR

350c.u.
AFR 180 cc
9:1 Cr
1 5/8 headers
600cfm holley
110EHyd. Cam
Intake .46"/218 deg@.05 Exhaust .47 lift/223 deg@.05
110 lobe center, 800 rpm idle 16" vacuum
435ftlbs/420hp the graph shows lots of low end torque, looks like a great setup for the street

check em out at www.airflowresearch.com

just my .02

Frank

 

[Evolution1980]

...and now I am thinking of the small roots blower from holley. That would freaking ROCK!! that should easily get me 600fwhp!!

600 Front Wheel HorsePower? What kinda vette you drivin'??!?! :L :L

 

[LarryBible]

The responses are all over the place, because you haven't made it clear what you're looking for from this combination.

The important thing is that you determine what you are looking for, then put together a combination that WORKS TOGETHER.

If you are wanting something with strong midrange for a fun to drive streetcar, you're not too far off. If you want something for best 1/4 mile times, you're way off.

The person telling you that this was too much cam, was probably thinking about a 350. The extra torque arm length as well as added CI of the 383 combination allow you to run a little more cam.

A fellow by the name of David Vizard has done a lot of testing with 383 combinations and indicates that they respond differently than a shorter stroke engine. His testing shows the Comp 270H to be the best and most cam these engines can successfully run. He also found that the Weiand 8004 (of all things) works well with the 383 combination.

As indicated by the first response, the heads you indicate are way too much for this combination. 190 CC runner size is indeed more in keeping with a torque street motor.

By using moderate heads, 270H and Weiand 8004 along with a higher stall speed converter(I'm not an automatic person, so I don't know how high) I think you will be pleased with the 3.08 gears if you are just looking for a midrange, torquey feeling engine. If you are looking for best 1/4 mile times, you need to rethink the whole thing, and indeed need more gear.

BTW, I hope the flat top pistons you bought have the correct pin to crown height for the 400 crankshaft. Also, if you are using flat tops on the street, you will need to use large volume combustion chamber heads or you will have way too much compression for even 93 octane with octane booster. You're best choice for the street would be the Hypereutectic dished pistons with small chamber heads.

Good luck,

 

[Stingray6974]

Fred,
As Frank said, they are the best flowing heads out of the box. You can run up to .550 lift cam and they have a 3/4 in. deck thickness. They are very strong heads. The 195's use the Victor style intakes, other than that they are the same as the 190's. If you have the room use the air gap intake.
Due to the intake/exhaust flow percentage you don't need to be using a dual-pattern cam. Keep the duration near 270 and the lift .460 - .470. Lsa no less than 110 deg. Any bigger of a cam and it won't be street friendly.
I am currently building a motor close to yours but not a stroker. Also I am willing to sacrifice 25 hp at 6,000rpm for a stronger mid range.
Come up to Garland sometime and I'll show you the AFR heads and the AirGap intake. You can take measurements for clearance. I'll give a ride in the '64 to show you the effects of a big cam and it's unfriendly nature.
Chris,
I don't dislike ALL Edelbrock products. I think they make great wingnuts. Just kidding. I don't like their cams.

Mike

 

[fc3]

To address what I am looking for: I want a vette that will smoke the tires, not be embarrassed by old mustangs and new rice burners. I want to be able to drive in a parade and show off this beautiful old car as well as drive in traffic with A/C on. I want to keep the exterior as close to original looking as I can. Thats why I want to keep the hood. Underneath I am willing to change most anything. I want a fun car that will slam you back in the seat and scare the heck out of you. IE- low end torque monster ( i'm trying to calm down) I will rarely race 1/4 mi. only for fun.
I bought the stroker kit fromCustom Design Performance ( http://www.cdpautomachine.com ) Kit number RK383SP with Federal Mogul 10.5-1 pistons.:Twist
Mike I was in Dallas yesterday, went to see Stars whip St Louis, a great hockey game! I would like to come by sometime-I travel to dallas fairly often.
I have only bought the block and stroker kit. I am trying to make the right moves on the heads, cam and intake to keep streetablity but get mid torque. High HP at 6000 RPM is not what I'm after.
Thanks to everyone for all the info- especially that that challenges my thinking. I am looking for the right combo and this conversation helps! Fred.

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Fred,
i was looking through the Crower website. they have some information on the different grinds and their intended rpm ranges. the guys at Crower are extemely helpfull and informative. you will most likely need a small base circle cam to clear the rods with the added stroke. it may be worth looking into. just my $.02.

http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml

i would also go for the 195 AFR heads and a Wiend dual plane intake. Mike Stark at Creative Flow Managment has flow tested all the different intakes, and says that the Weind flows the best. and a dual plane is what you want for your intended purpose. dual planes flow great up to 6000rpm, after that you want a single plane. the other added bonus is the Weind has a low profile for your clearance with the hood. i ran a Weind on my 406, and the low rpm torque numbers were impressive! as for combustion chamber volume, i believe the 68cc heads will be fine. i am running 10.75 comp ratio with 70cc chambers with no problems on 90 octane. i will run the numbers a little farther for you if your motor guy (or anyone else) questions me, i could be wrong, but i think it will be fine. happy building, Brian

 

[sscam69]

fwhp=Fly Wheel Horsepower

With a 12bolt and a T-56 I should see clost to 550 or so at the wheels. The drive train typically absorbs 50hp or so, but it varies.

With a good launch, sticky tires and some skillful driving low 11's all day long are not out of reach. Maybe even faster. There is not an 03 Cobra thats going to put this vette away

 

[Evolution1980]

fwhp=Fly Wheel Horsepower

Ahhh... FLY WHEEL Horsepower...
Ya see? That's what I get for my past meandering in the forum devoted to my daily driver...they refer to RWHP and FWHP (as my daily driver is a front wheel driver)
Fly Wheel HP I usually hear referred to as "___HP at the crank"

 

[sscam69]

:L

I was wondering where in the heck you got that, but now I understand. Gees dude you had me worried!!

 

[Jack]

compression ratio: piston choice

BTW, I hope the flat top pistons you bought have the correct pin to crown height for the 400 crankshaft. Also, if you are using flat tops on the street, you will need to use large volume combustion chamber heads or you will have way too much compression for even 93 octane with octane booster. You're best choice for the street would be the Hypereutectic dished pistons with small chamber heads.

Fred:
Larry (&others) raises important points here. Seems the power-efficiency trend is to small cc heads with dish pistons. I assure you many WCup motors run reverse-dome pistons. Also, I didn't notice if your block will retain std 9.025" deck height ... or will it be decked ?... decking has major effect on CR. I have Dished (-12.5cc) TRW/Speed-Pro hypereutectic piston pn H602CP. With a std deck, 3.75" stroke, 0.039" thick head gasket, 30 overbore and 68cc chambers ... the dished H602 will make about 9.3:1 CR ... higher if block decked. Also, the H602 is reasonably priced and can be setup with either pressed or floating pins. H602 uses the std 5/64" thick top & second rings ... more durable than 1/16". Hypereutectic is not the best choice if you're gonna use nitrous or supercharger or turbocharger. BTW, I have Weiand 8004 ... very nice ... low-profile, similar to performer 2101 ... but $10 - $15 cheaper. Your stroker motor is gonna make more heat than your old motor. Also have Weiand Team G alum water pump ... Stewart stage 2 alum wp's are real nice too.
JACK:gap

 

[GerryLP]

Confused :confused

69MyWay et al,

I guess I can relate to all of our bravado impulses and say "hell yes, smoke them tires" , but doesn't that present a problem with et's when it comes to a daily-driver or even a summer-only driver vehicle? :confused

From my point of view, no matter how naive it may sound, I want to make my car to leave the gate, but if I have so much torque that the tires won't even grip the road, then I guess I won't be getting no-where fast. Am I right?

In Top Fuel or Funny cars, the horsepower is so overbearing that they have to use special tires and techniques to make the car take hold of the strip (choice lane or not). They are able to apply WOT-producing good ol' horsepower right from the get go; however, where one can best hope to make the speed and lower et's is with the mid-range or even top horsepower output.

Am I way out past the bleachers or am I in the ball park?

 

[69MyWay]

GerryLP,

You make an excellent point, and that is also why I think we try to stress to others the importance of matching all the parts in such a way to achieve your final goal (whatever that final goal is).

There is something to be said about the bragging rights of driving a street car that has more power than street tires can hold. There is a simply remedy for this by taking the car to the track and bolting on a set of slicks to find out the full potential of the motor.

Most cars are faster with slicks. The truth is, that is not a real representation of the daily driver power of the car, and therefore a 600 hp car could be beat on the street red light to red light from a 300 hp car if the 300 hp car gets traction and the 600 hp car goes up in smoke.

No matter how much you have though, you always want more!

So, none of it really makes any sense at all.

 

[BigBrakeFuelie]

Hey fellow Shark owners,Sorry to but in on the post.I`m also in the process of buying a new engine.I found a 383 Stroker for $2095.I`m also considering a Crate from GM performance products it`s a 350 cubic in 330hp,at 5000rpm.380ft.lbs of torque at 3800rpm. This one goes for about $2400.
What engine would be better for my car? I`m just looking for a fun ride with good street usable horsepower.Reliability is important too.